SCI - 23
                 Copyright (C) 1992 Homer Wilson Smith
       Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes.
 >>I submit that effects never prove absolutely the existence of cause.
 >     Of course not.  This is what *we've* been trying to say in this
 >thread for a while: science is not about anything absolute.  It's
 >about a model -- a predictor -- for some effect in the world.  It's
 >not about any absolute existence of cause; it's the best model we can
 >make today.
     Yes exactly, but you go one step further and claim that the
experimenter can not be part of the experiment.  Tell that to Albert
Hofmann who discovered LSD.  Tell him his second trip was not an
'experiment in the name of science.'
     Look it's real simple.  I run a process on a pc and he SAYS he got
out of his body.  That vocalization is the external data that I can
observe about the pc.  I run the same process on 2 million pcs and they
ALL SAY they can get out of their body.
     Seems to me we have a science here, I do an experiment, I get a
result, I can observe the result in others, others can observe the
results too.
     Others can do the same experiment, not on themselves Lord forbid,
and they can get the same results, the pc SAYS 'I am OUT!'
     Now what model would you like to propose to explain this data?
     1.)  The pc is lying.
     2.)  The pc is hallucinating.
     3.)  The pc is out of his body and is reporting the truth.
     Tell me this is not a *Science* (tm) up to this point.
>Well, Homer, we're left with a question. If you want "clearing tech" to
>be a science, you would definitely benefit from creating an objective
>demonstration of an OOBE.
     Sure, the question is do I want clear tech to BE a *Science* (tm)
and the answer is no, or well maybe.  If I must provide external
evidence for internal states, then perhaps I should stick to providing
that evidence only for those internal states that others, who do not
have those states, would not feel threatened by and be prone to attack
as too dangerous.
     Grand exteriorization would not be one of these, I would rather
keep that weapon under cover in my secret laboratory where no one can
know about it except those who can do it or those working towards
getting there.
 >Would you want this to happen?
     Yes but not at the expense of the stability of civilization.
     Half the world would immediately decide you were under the control
of the Devil if you demonstrated any such power, they would NOT think
you were out of your body, they KNOW this is impossible, they KNOW you
ARE a body, they KNOW you have only LIVED ONCE, therefore if you have
such power the Devil must be doing it for you.
     WAKE UP!
     The first OT to demonstrate serious power would be considered the
Anti-Christ by that evening's news.
 >If the answer is yes,
 >how about if you objectively demonstrate an OOBE?
     Not in a million years.
     Those who are being helped TOWARDS this ability have a very strong
desire that such abilities not be demonstrated because they know it will
make it harder for them to get there smoothly.
>     What is obvious is that, if you could objective demonstrate an
>OOBE, you could [virtually] instantly bring the credibility of science
>to "clearing tech."
     Credibility to who, Phil?
     Skeptics?  Who cares, BOOORRRRRIIINNNNGGGG.
     Christians?  No way, it would be Anti Christ city for them.
     At what expense?
     Who is to judge the effects of such a demonstration?
>This is where you lose the audience, >Homer. *You* are the one who
wants >"clearing tech" to become a science.
    Phil, my friend, my long lost buddy of millions of years ago, YOU
    Nor is anyone like you, including all of your skeptic and
*Scientist* (tm) friends.
>But you obviously can, right?  >And you do have motivation for
demonstrating >your powers, right?
     Me?  Phil, you been reading my stuff?  Did I ever say I was a full
OT with grand exteriorization ability?  I doubt there is anyone on this
list with this ability.
     But I will bet you they wouldn't tell you if they had it.
     People trying to go exterior run into the wall of NO PERMISSION.

     The wall of no permission is actual and absolute whether or not
just abilities exist at all.  IF they existed, you have no permission to
promiscuously demonstrate them to raw public.

>     Don't you think it would make a huge difference to the world to
>demonstrate this "clearing tech" *as a science* to the rest of us?
     Yes, perhaps, but you *Scientists of the Rock* (tm) are pretty
dense, not sure if you are worth the bother.
     Certainly demostrating some lower level improvement in case gain
might be useful to those who are able to make case gain.
     You know even if someone did demonstrate to you OOBE, and you
believed it, YOU still might be an inaccessible pc.
     Getting out of a body is a matter of confronting why you were in
one in the first place.
     Do YOU have the personal confront for this Phil?
     Or are you hiding behind your doubt so you don't have to see your
own wall of fire?
     Anyhow, any serious demonstration of super human powers would
destroy all of civilization with in a year, so no that would not be good
for clear tech.
     There are many more people who do not need that level of proof,
they can REMEMBER they once had power, they just want it back.
     THOSE are my audience, those who still have a memory, and confront.
 >Do you or do you not want to
 >demonstrate the science of "clearing tech" to
 >the world?
     Sorry Phil, you and your kind are not the world.  The world is full
of pcs beating a path to auditor's doors.
     We don't need you.
     Skeptics can have the planet all to themselves when the rest of us
     When everyone goes clear who can, the Earth will become a Holding
Tank for Skeptics.
     They can keep each other warm with their doubt.
     No one is asking you to believe what you have not experienced for
     We ARE asking you to believe what you HAVE experienced for yourself
even if you can't prove it to some Joe Smoe in a white lab coat.
     Get some auditing, stop hiding behind your *Science* (tm).
     You don't need permission from the American Journal of Physics to
get a new reality on what you are, why you are here, and what you can
     That reality comes from YOU, if they don't know it, it's only
because they don't want to know it.
     You can always get out of your body and go watch them having sex
and groaning 'Clear Tech, right, Prove it!'
     They should get some auditing too.
Homer Wilson Smith           This file may be found at
homer@rahul.net              ftp.rahul.net/pub/homer/act/SCI23.MEMO
Posted to usenet newsgroup:  alt.clearing.technology