OT LOYALTY II In alt.clearing.technology husk wrote: > This is an interesting argument, which is new to me. What I > understand from what you say is that if Scientology actually had the > power/skills/technology to create actual OTs their goal of clearing > the planet would actually be damaged because these OT's would no > longer want to play the game. Creating OT's would therefore be > counter-productive for Scientology and therefore their bridge is > nothing but a scam. No, but it is a crippled bridge. Creating a case free being is certainly counterproductive to any auditor if he depends on people being casey for his income. A guy with a floating TA isn't going to come in for more auditing, and if he stays floating, he won't ever come back. He will in fact get on with his basic purposes which probably WON'T be to audit others. That is in part why I believe the Church suppressed the basic purpose rundown, as people left the church once they found their basic purpose, and didn't want to be on staff any more. Of course high tone help is simply playing games with each other, co action at spirit of play on the tone scale. In the last analysis lower tone help at fix and repair, is an aberration born of being part of a 'karma-group', those you have hurt and who have hurt you. It isn't everyone, and it isn't infinite. Once your postulates tying yourself to your karma group are as-ised, you are free to go, all debts forgiven. The harms done to you are gone, AS ARE THE HARMS YOU DID TO OTHERS. Most people in the church are stuck to their karma group and are either in making amends, propitiation or outright sacrifice. Once a person attains Grade I, ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish, I mean REALLY attains it, he no longer has problems over other's having problems or suffering. Their suffering is BEAUTIFUL as part of a greater tapestry of high appreciation for ludicrous demise. At power, Grade V, it becomes even worse, the guy is so clear of drama, you can't dramatize enough to get him interested in you or your plight except to admire it. If you are burning on a cross with a pail of water at the bottom, and you beg the guy to help you by throwing the water on the flames, he will probably drink the water, and toast a marshmellow in the fire. When done he will say 'Nice flaming cross dude, perhaps someday you will teach me how to do that.' But his admiration of your condition is enough to start its unwinding for total acceptance and admiraton of anything by anyone will being to as-it it for all parties involved. Through admiration of ludicrous demise the universe is self-healing. Its only when the universe has everyone worried sick about it, can it guarantee the persistence it so craves. You gotta understand that at some high level pain is beautiful to a God, it's one of his pretty colors he paints tapestries with. Pain only becomes painful when the God falls below recognition of himself as source of his own tapestry. He does this on purpose. No one will take his beautiful tapestry seriously if he isn't taking it seriously himself. As Hubbard said, 'As long as a being still needs to DO something about a problem, he isn't clear on that problem'. That includes the idea that dealing with the problem directly with as-isness will cause the problem to vanish on all sides of all fences, so if the guy is DOING something about the problem, he still has the problem by his own postulate. So we are not talking about apathy about problems here, we are talking about a scary kind of effectiveness that a God like being can bring to resolving no longer wanted issues. Part of that is realizing that at one time he did want them in general, so he has to change his mind, and poof they are gone. Now humans run on doing, caring, helping and doing, if no one did anything, the whole world would stop and everyone would starve to death. And frankly that is kind of what happens at many levels as people get spiritually clear, they realize their presence in a body is itself a selfish overt act, and although they don't want to just leave the body alone as it won't do well without a thetan in this society and some other thetan will take it over who will treat it worse, neither do they want to continue in body games. Body games of caring about people involve postulates that others need your help. That solidifies their need for help, you see? So at some point the theta clear realizes that his considering that other's need his help makes things worse for others, so he decides just to leave the postulate pool instead. That's one less person posulating that the rest of us are bad off and need help, so everyone get's spontaneously better to just that degree. Thus Hubbard wanted to keep skimming off the top 1 percent of OT people on this planet, because their postulates were the most dangerous, and as they left, the world got better. Then he wanted to work on the next 1 percent until they left. That way everyone could bubble up to a better position in life without the postulate weight of near gods pushing them down by caring, and worrying and trying to help the poor dear souls. But then the more clear someone gets, the more they aren't around any more. Thus the Church needs to fall short of actually clearing anyone in order to keep them around. They know this, I know this, they know I know this, I know they know I know this, but no one is talking about it. It is one of those 'unthinkable thoughts', not quite patriotic you know? Remember Gods as Humans *HATE* Gods as Gods. > Does Scientology actually advertise that that control is possible? To > be able to control which body your thetan enters, and therefore pick > your birth parents? This is hard to answer, because it very much depends on *which* scientology you are talking about. It is well stated in many places that a Cleared Theta Clear, no longer has a need for a body and will not pick up another body in his next life time at all. It is also well stated in various places that a non clear is compulsively addicted to bodies as they can't stand the exterior state, and will fight to the death to take over a body, sometimes winning, sometimes losing to another thetan, sometimes killing the body. Lower than that, the being can't take on a body any more, and may become involved with body clusters or BT's. Somewhere in between it is generally accepted that all beings have translife time goals, and that once these are rehabilitated they will pursue those goals again, using bodies or not as the case may be. Most people don't want to come back, they are terrified of life on Earth. They are very low toned. A better tone is being terrified you can't come back and your trans life goals will go awasting. An even better tone is you will be able to stay clear of bodies until you find a family you truly want to be part of, and who is aware of you in some sense before you take over the body, and who will help you attain those trans life goals. At this level a thetan will pick a set of people, and with projection of intention get them to find each other, fall in love, marry and have sex and bear the child the thetan wants to take over. Thetans can plan and orchestrate the whole thing. These famlies can turn out to be really loving families and highly successful, because the parents had 'divine' help finding each other, namely the help of their own child. That's why cupid is often pictured as a little naked baby. Higher tone, the being probably says oh screw it, I can keep me and my friends interested in existence without having bodies of our own. They become managers of humanity through a projection of intention process, guiding others towards their goals or not from a higher viewpoint of what is going on and why. But at that point, they are optimizing games, and not helping people win them, the God aspect is operating and not the human aspect, which comes from 'I need a body, and I need help from other bodies, and you better help me and I better help you or else... etc.' Homer ================ http://www.clearing.org ==================== Wed Jan 14 03:06:02 EST 2015 ftp://ftp.lightlink.com/pub/archive/homer/adore746.memo Send mail to archive@lightlink.com saying help ================== http://www.lightlink.com/theproof =================== Learning implies Learning with Certainty or Learning without Certainty. Learning across a Distance implies Learning by Being an Effect. Learning by Being an Effect implies Learning without Certainty. Therefore, Learning with Certainty implies Learning, but not by Being an Effect, and not across a Distance. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFUtiNqURT1lqxE3HERAmMMAJ9Sb9132Vv0xbXcmCv17185DKsvaACfRY80 G93JPZR67YLF0lMp8xYP11k= =doWj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Wed Jan 14 12:14:36 EST 2015