Meatballs tend to think of certainty in terms of evidence and conclusions. They observe some data and from that data draw a conclusion and then assign that conclusion some degree of certainty, even 100 percent certainty. Then some more data comes along and refutes their conclusion, and thus 'they were certain of something that was wrong.' Well they were never certain in the first place. *NO* conclusion *DERIVED* from evidence *CAN EVER BE* certain, one is dealing with probablistic bets only, never certainties. The *DATA* can be certain because it was directly observed, but any conclusion drawn from that data, unless it is a logical tautology, can never be certain. Certainty is a relationship between the conscious viewer and his own consciousness of things, himself and his color forms. All consciousness-of is certainty-of. For example get yourself two pieces of paper, one red and one green and put them next to each other on the table and observe them. Remember you are dreaming, there is no PAPER there, just two color forms, one red and one green. Or do this with bathroom towels, anything where the colors are bright and unmistakably different. Ask yourself the following the question, "Do I see two different colors?" "Is it possible I am wrong?" "Could any possible further data come along to change my mind that right now I see two different colors in the red and the green?" "Would I bet my eternity in hell that I see two different colors?" Do this until you attain a perfect certainty that you see two different colors and could not be wrong. Notice how this certainty is different than a certainty derived from data that might be incomplete or change. Homer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Homer Wilson Smith Clean Air, Clear Water, Art Matrix - Lightlink (607) 277-0959 A Green Earth and Peace. Internet Access, Ithaca NY homer@lightlink.com Is that too much to ask? http://www.lightlink.com