.ll 72
.fo off
.co on 
.ce ((Editor's comments in double parenthesis - Homer))
.ce ADR - 166
.ce Copyright (C) Homer Wilson Smith
.ce Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes
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Date:         Wed, 26 Apr 89 22:29:56 EDT
From:         Homer 
Subject:      Re: Experiences
To:           Adore-l list 
In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 10 Apr 89 23:47:08 EST from 

>I have been one of the people that has continued to ask for descriptions
>of some religious experiences here.  The reason I'm doing this, personally,
>is that I would like to be able to understand where Homer is coming from.
>I don't plan on criticizing anyone over this.  How can you find any
>criticism in an account of what a person was experiencing?  You can
>criticize the interpretations of the experience, but it's the experience
>itself, not the interpretation, that I'm looking for from Homer.

     One reason is that I don't want to set myself up for criticisms
of the interpretation of the experience.  Some would say it is
the experience that is important, others would say it is the
interpretation of the experience.  I like to keep them separate
so that no one can say I am an idiot for taking interpretation A
from experience B.  People already think I am an idiot, why
give them fuel to throw on the fire?  It is THEIR immortality
they are laughing at.  Fuck em.  You know what I mean?

     Another reason is that experiences are very ephemeral and
often beyond words.  Thus trying to describe an experience ALWAYS
gets the other person to come up with a false conception of what
you are talking about which they then attack you for drawing
interpretations from.  Especially people who have had no 'experiences.'
Trying to describe one to such a person is a no win situation and just
makes matters worse.  On the other hand people who HAVE had experiences
of something or other CAN glean some measure of understanding
from what you might describe, but they have already experienced it,
so why discuss it?  Except of course to discuss the ramifications
which gets into interpretations.

     Another reason that I don't like getting into describing experiences,
besides the fact that it is litterally telling the enemy excatly what
your armaments are, is that people get into a one upmanship about who
has experienced what, and some get to feeling very depressed because
'THEY'VE never experienced THAT.'

     One of the most basic experiences that people are looking for
is RECOGNITION.  Recognition of themselves, their choices, and
the people they have known and loved down the ages.  Most people
slough off the moment of recognition as they know there is nothing
to really recognize.   Of course they are wrong, there is millions
and millions of years and people and things and places to recognize,
and it is a great joy when you finally meet someone you REMEMBER.

     It is very much like finding a true friend you did not know you
had forgotten.   Then you begin to ask 'How long has this been going on?'
It is enough to make chills crawl up and down your spine.

     Of course others walk around recognizing every dog cat and
cockcroach they see, but they are just giving the whole subject
a bad name.

     It is true that many insane people think they are Napolean.
But what about all the insane people who think they are bodies
and live just once?

     Out there somewhere IS Napolean, maybe not quite sure he should
say anything about it because no one would believe him.

     The next experience that most are looking for are clear memories
of past places that are no longer.  Other planets, other times,
even home universe.  Unfortunately our memories are so chock full
of OTHERS memories that we often take any clear image that comes along
and call it ours.  Well it may belong to someone, but not necessarily
to YOU.  When you find your own memory in the junk heap of images,
you will find some serenity of self you have not known for trillenia.

     Serenity of Being, Eternal Omni Sovereignty, these are absolute
states at the very highest reaches of ability that we can again
contact in this life.  People CLAIM to contact these states, but
check out their contact with reality and their ability to deal with it.
Gods do not have any problems.  Bums merely claim they have no problems.
But they have no accomplishments either.

     A person who has really made it will be surrounded by

>We already know his conclusions, but what we don't know is why he
>feels that way.

     I feel this way because the conclusions WORK.

     They start off as a theory, you try them out, you see they work,
and they become conclusions.

     The way in is the way out.  Have a headache?  Make MORE.
Don't have a headache?  Make one.  If you had been taught
these principles from childhood you would be able to make
headaches come and go with ease.  If you become bent on trying
to STOP a headache that 'something else' created, you will
get stuck with the headache.  If you learn to START headaches,
then you can out start anything else that might be trying to
make a headache for you, and you will not get stuck with them
unless you want to.

     Of course if everyone could make headaches come and go and
KNEW that everyone could do this, you could never USE a headache
to get out of school.  Or allergies, or colds, or flu or cancer.

     Everyone is terrified of cancer, but NO ONE is practicing
MAKING a cancer in their bodies.  They are afraid they might
get stuck with it.  But if you can MAKE it you can UNMAKE it.
So people devote themselves to NOT MAKING cancers and they
die of them routinely.

     Earth is a joke.  A sick joke perhaps, but a Majestic
sick joke that plays on the God-childs refusal to operate
what he fears the most.  If you make a big ugly looking
spider and then run away from it, IT WILL come after you.
You SAID so in the running away from it, don't you see?

     Of course if you just sit there in apathy and DONT run away
from it, it will eat you anyhow.  You gotta MAKE it.  And chose
to run away from it and have it come after you.  THEN it will
vanish.  It is a matter of whether you OWN it while you are doing it,
or you chose to believe your mockups for real.  In which case
you will get eaten every time.  YOU SAID SO.

Certainly, his philosophies are not shared by
>the majority of the people,

     Not so.  Maybe in AMERICA the majority of the people are
meatballs but America is a decadent piece of pollution on the
waters of the Earth.  Its advancement in the high tech area is
matched only by the depth of sleep that its zombie citizens
are walking around in.

     Hell America is run by a sub class of humans who believe
that GOD died for your sins in the body of Jesus Christ.
If this is not the pit of putritude, I do not know what is.

     Others countries are not much better, because all of EARTH
is an insane asylum for the mentally retarded that could not or
would not get along with others out in the real universe.
We have all had our memories EXECUTED out of us, (its still there though)
and we have been dumped here in the hope that we would never have to
be dealt with again.  Of course the civilizations that dumped us here
were not the height of wonder themselves.  But at least they knew
about immortality.

and so it goes without saying that
>he should explain WHY he feels that way if he wants to be understood
>by us mundane folks.

     It is not my goal to be understood by mundane folks.
It is my goal to share understanding with others who have it.
Those who don't, or who need PROOF before they will LOOK are invited
to get lost.  I owe them nothing.

     They are indeed very fortunate to have someone daring enough
to even open his/her mouth on this subject right or wrong.

     In fact those who are green apprehentices to this subject
matter should keep their mouths shut until they gain some
understanding they can share with others.

     At worst they should treat those they question with some
respect.  It starts with knowing that there is something to know,
that you do not know it and that the one you are questioning
might know it.  It does not start with trying to denounce or debunk
the person in question.  THAT is for the SKEPTICS-L list and such
people who behave in this manner will treated with total contempt on this list.

     Skeptics are in a kind of hell.  They doubt they CHOSE and they
doubt they CHOSE to DOUBT.  Who now owes them a free ride out?
If they LISTEN and LOOK and APPLY they might be able to take
advantage of the fact that they are allowed to communicate with
those who have already done some of the dangerous work and have
attained some measure of ability.  Those who have no ability
in these matters are not OWED by those that do.

    Since most ability comes from within yourself anyway, screaming
and yelling about others not sharing their secrets with you is
only partly valid.  If you have to do it alone, you have to do it alone.
To say 'I will not believe until you prove it to me that there is something
to believe' is to continue the joke which is on YOU.  YOU PROVE IT TO YOURSELF.

     Then I can heckle you.  What a joy that will be.  I can't wait.
>But then again, a religious experience has got to be the Ultimate
>Personal Thing, so I can understand why he might be hesitant to
>reveal anything.  This is all well and good.

     Yes.  The personal thing about it is the PAIN.  The joke we
have played on ourselves is much like nailling ourselves
to cross in public view for all to see.  Once we did that to ourselves,
we may even have nailed a few of our friends to something too.

     Disentangling the blame shame and regret takes a bit of nerve and
is best done in private or with a trained person, one who has attained
a release state themselves.  (No I am not there.  Yet.)  They will not laugh
at you during your worst moments, and they will not be afraid if
you really do get back the ability to exteriorize and generate
a few million electron volts.

     A spirit out of a body and free from his own constraints
measures his energy output in kiloton-lightyears per microsecond.
That is really a unit of momentum, but since a spirit does not
have to go through the acceleration phase to get something moving,
it is essentially a unit of energy.  Mass times velocity.

     Imagine getting hit with a kiloton lightyear per microsecond
of mass and velocity?  You don't fool around with such spirits, and
you don't laugh at them and you don't ask them to fucking PROVE IT.

    'He who speaks knows not' really applies to the hecklers in
the crowd who have no idea WHAT THEY ARE HECKLING.  Exepcially
when their target is one of the few that DO speak and happen to
know where they speak from.

>BUT, until he describes WHY he feels the way he does, I for one will find
>it hard to place any more credibility in his statements than any other
>non-obvious statements made by the average lunatic.
     The inplication here is that you will quickly change your mind
as soon as I cough up the required data.  This is false.
YOU may think it will help.  I KNOW it wont.

     Only one thing will convince you the way in is the way out.
DO it and HAVE IT WORK.  Until then you are out of luck.

     By the way I HAVE done it and it DOES WORK.  But there is a LOT
to do it TO.  Get it?   You wont go free in a day.  Unless of course
you do, in which case please let me be the first to know.  I am
tired of all this long slow work.

>I can say "we all have tiny brown rabbits living inside our heads"
>all I want, but until I submit my reason for feeling that way, my
>ideas are not going to be taken with too much respect.
     Your reason for feeling that way is you have SEEN the rabbits, no?
You have also seen that you have chosen to NOT SEE the rabbits, and
that the only way to SEE them again is to practice NOT SEEING them
until you perfectly duplicate what you did to shut them out at which
moment you will see them again.

     Of course if others do NOT have rabbits in their heads,
this will not work.  How will you ever know the difference?
Good point.  Well USE the method and if you end up seeing the
rabbits, they were there all along.  If you don't, they weren't.

     But what if you don't use the method right, so you don't
end up seeing the rabbits?  How will you know if you did the method
right and the rabbits were not there, or if you did NOT do the
method right so the rabbits are still just not SEEN.

     Ah well, spirits have been scratching their balls for
millions of years over that one.  But look we are talking
about your IMMORTALITY.  Not your rabbits.  OF COURSE you are
Immortal.  It is up to you to keep applying the method until you
see the fact for yourself.  Of course its no good cheating and
turning to BELIEF or some other such nonsense.  You gotta keep
doing it until you SEE for SURE how old you really are.

     Eternity is a long time.  It takes a tad of confont to look upon it.
Sort of like looking out into endless open space.
But in anycase it is the CHOICE you have to see.  Not just a bunch of time.
You can look at eternity all you want and not get better.  You have to see
YOUR HAND in your involvement with space and time in order to regain
your full self determinism over it.  Until then you are lost forever in the sea
of space and time and OTHER DETERIMINSIM.

>So, Homer, unless you loosen up a little bit and share some of
>your data, I don't understand how you can expect NOT to have a
>constant stream of attacks from the meat-ball skeptics.

     You are right I should grow up and expect the attacks.

     But if for one moment those people saw how silly they looked
they would clam it up immediately and start applying the data rather
than screaming for proof.

     For example a good thing to run on yourself or a friend is,

     'Look around here and spot some evidence that you are not
      responsible for your condition.'

     'Look around here and spot some evidence that you ARE
      responsible for your condition.'

     Dont try to white wash it by saying, well I am really responsible
for my condition because I did so and so.  Did you chose EARTH?  Did you
chose AMERICA?  Do you put the stars in the sky?  Do you make it rain?
How about the color of your skin, the number of cells in your body,
the mechanisms of biology.  Truly our responsibility is apprently
very very low if you compare it to all that exists.

     In fact one good look at just how unresponsible we really feel
about things is one good look right into the mind of God, YOU.
Because that is what you did to your self.  You made something very
big, and you jumped in.  And boy did you jump in.

>The fact that all your experiences remain unknown adds to the
>carnival con-artist flavor of your statements.  Sure, they may be
>true, but to those of us who don't yet agree with you, you sound
>very much like a magician in a circus.  We always see the end
>result, but never get to know how or why you arrived there.

     Yeah its hard.  Most of my 'experiences' are too ineffable to
put into words in a way that I know you would get it.

     But almost all of them came from looking at the possibility that
I had hidden my reponsibility from myself for a reason.  THAT causes
spiritual visions to occurr no end.  So it is not like the visions
came to me for no reason and I made some conclusions.  I ALREADY
HAD a THEORY, namely I chose to forget choosing to forget, and
in thinking about that theory and working it out in every detail
of my life, the visions have come fast and furious.

     Sometimes more furious than fast.  So watch it.
>"Because" is not an answer that sits well.  If that's the way
>you want to run things, so be it, but don't complain when you have
>to defend that line of argument against the skeptics!
     The skeptics should show some understanding and stop bugging
me about it.

     No one is expecting them to accept things on faith or to believe
something just because it is desirable or I said it.  In fact
one demands that they NOT do this because THAT is just what they
have been doing for the past years of their lives when they
buy the story of the physical universe being real and not just
one hell of a projection.

     Skeptics are such hypocrits.  I have no respect for them at all.
They demand proof that consciousness is real, but they believe to their
last breath they are made of matter that they have never seen and in fact
can not see.  They are dreamers who think their dream is real just and only
because it hit them so hard in the face and in fact this kind of
skeptic is the worst kind of 'true believer' there is.  They believe
in matter energy space and time but consciousness which they can SEE
is unimportant or just a function of the material brain.  What idiocy.

     From ADORE,

     Mortals bow and pray to the God of

     TIME, STONE and Dust in the Wind.

>You might ask why I haven't shared any of my own religious experiences...
>The answer is that I haven't had any.  I'm searching, and I promise
>everyone that this list will be the first to know about them when they
>occur!  :)

    You are bound to have them.

     Ask yourself,

    Are you willing to come back and do 1st grade again in your next

    Are you willing to be a girl or a boy in your next life?

    Have you EVER died a natural, peceful death?

    What were YOU doing during World War II or Korea?

    If you are a Jew, have you ever been a Christian?

    If you are a Christian, have you ever been a Jew?

    Have you ever been a black or a slave?

    Did you die in the Civil War?

    Whose side were you on?

    Does it piss you off that you forget all your skills
from life time to lifetime?

    Is it REASONABLE to expect people to be able to survive
well on this planet if they forget all they know every week?
Every month?  Every year?  Every 20 years?  Every lifetime?
Every Universe?

    Who ever said you HAD to do it only on this lifetimes learning anyway?

    Do you FEEL anything on the subject of living once and dying?

    Are you afraid of anger?

    Are you mad at fear?

    What FEELING do you expect to have during your 'experiences'?

    Have you ever felt MONSTER VIBRATIONS?

    Are you willing to meet a Divinity?

    Are you willing to meet a Devil?

    Does it surprise you that no one on Earth thinks twice about
being mortal?


    You WILL have the experiences you seek if you keep asking
questions, and keep questioning answers.
>                                                Jim McCabe
>                                                MCCABE @ MTUS5.BITNET

 Homer               Adore-l list         4/27/89*Experiences