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Date:         Fri, 12 May 89 13:30:39 EDT
From:         Homer 
Subject:      Re: Peace and Spirituality
To:           Disarmament Discussion List ,
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 21 Apr 89 08:59:07 CDT from 

>There is no question that religion (as in religous institutions) are
>contrivances of human beings; they represent accumulated attempts at
>interpreting the world in conjunction with some sort of higher
>existence or spirituality.  The fact that individuals or groups
>often do odious things in the name of these institutions does not
>in any invalidate the notion of a higher spiritual existence.
>Religion is only one of a number of bases for human conflict; these
>bases will always be with us.  So the question is not the elimination
>of the bases (for we will always find new ones) - the question
>is the redefinition of the nature of conflict itself.  As long as
>I hold opinion A and you hold opinion B, there will be conflict
>between us.  The answer is arrive at an understanding of conflict
>which allow us to resolve differences without blowing one another

     This is obvious, but the above is only true if opinion B is that
you should not hold opinion A.  Who cares if I like Fords and you like
Chevys.  Those who do not wish to indulge in abortion are very adamant
about EVERYONE not indulging in abortion, although you will notice
that the pro abortion people don't give a whit if the anti abortion
people have abortions or not.

     So it is not just one view point against another.  It is very
specifially the viewpoint that you should not have another viewpoint.
It acts as a rider to the original viewpoint.  That YOU should not
have abortions is a rider to the viewpoint that I do not want to have

     With man made religions there almost always is a damnation clause.
Semething which says that YOU must not have another viewpoint even if
it is ok to you for me to have my viewpoint.  THIS is part of the
strife, the ENEMY CLAUSE.

>In my view, the prospects for extended peace depend on our world
>view.  Unless we are able to cultivate a view of the planet as
>divine and demanding of respect, I fear our efforts at obtaining
>true peace will be in vain.

     It is impossible to cultivate a view of the world as divine
and commanding respect when half the population is going to hell
forever and ever for some real or imagined sin.  GOD is above such
nonsense but humans arn't.  Show me a religion with out a Hell for ever
and I will show you the road to peace and freedom.

I believe that our basic nature
>is spiritual and divine, as is that of the planet.  Failure to
>see the world in a truly spiritual light is a major cause not
>only of war but also of the environmental crisis and the deprivation
>of human needs and human rights.  All of these things are
>irrevokably intertwined and interactive.  Justice is absolutely a
>prerequisite for peace: we must not deny the rights of oppressed
>people to fight their oppressors.  My point is that justice depends
>upon respect and a recognition of the inherent divinity in all
>creatures fosters that respect.

     And what is justice?  Sending trespassers to Hell forever?
Bringing the bad guy to JUSTICE?  Justice is fair exchange.  Fair trade.
Justice is not punishment or damnation.  Justice is salvation FOR ALL.
Anything less is a CHRISTIAN LIE.

     But mankind loves his electric chairs.  He LOVES his wars (on commies,
drugs, Jews, Blacks, you name it.)

     He is unable to fight what he should be fighting, so he picks on his
neighbors around him.  He can't salvage, so he executes and destroys.
Much better to be a righteous upstanding citizen and send another
serial killer to the chair than to attain any sort of understanding.
As long as he fools himself into thinking that GOD sends people to Hell,
he will do as he conceives his Maker does, send people to their
doom/death, and he will INVENT crimes and JUSTIFICATIONS to do so.

I agree that the institutions
>humans have developed may not be the best means to that end -
>that those institutions may in fact impede that progress.  But I
>don't feel that we can use the failure of those institutions as
>a rationale for denying fundamental spiritual reality and the
>necessary role of spirituality in the quest for peace and justice.

     This is true.  The mortal meatballs are not helping us any.
The belief in Death forever or Hell forever are both the yellow brick
road leading us down the path of Corruption, Temptation and Seduction.

     But if you cant salvage your own serial killers (and want to)
then you will never salvage the Iranians or the commies or the druggies,
or what ever else stalks you in the night.

     Man is too busy sending little bits of Divinty to Hell to notice
the road he is on.

     From ADORE:

     The Hurry of Impending Mortal Doom


     The Hurry of Impending Eternal Doom.


       Justice Of Kindship Excaliper.

Your local crazy.

 Homer               Disarmament Discuss  5/12/89*Peace and Spirituality