.ll 72
.fo off
.co on 
.ce ((Editor's comments in double parenthesis - Homer))
.ce ADR - 235
.ce Copyright (C) Homer Wilson Smith
.ce Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes
======================================================================== 198
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 89 19:02:16 EDT
From:         Homer 
Subject:      Re: Everything
To:           Adore-l list 
In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 19 Jun 89 08:44:43 EST from 

>   Concerning the formation of a new list, Adore2.  If Homer is not
>going to post, what use is that going to be?  Honestly, I thought Adore-L
>was meant for the discussion of Adore.  A discussion of Adore without
>Homer is going to be pointless, don't you think?  Just my opinion, though,
>I probably won't be here to see it anyway.

     Ah I finally see the light about Jim.

     OK, Jim was mainly interested in ADORE and this list as a forum
for discussing it.  Maybe others are too.  They of course will stay
on this list as I will continue to post Adorian junk plus other stuff.

     However discussing ADORE is only 1/3 of the charter of this list.
And the war that rages over ADORE should not sstop the list from being
used for other topics.

     Yeah, Yeah I always get my 2 cents in, but tough.  That's the
price you pay.
>   Also, I'm not convinced that it is dangerous to discuss these things
>in public, either.  On PSI-L, people relate their very personal spiritual
>experiences in great detail, and I'm not aware of anyone getting
>kidnapped by the government yet.  The biggest danger I forsee is of
>loosing a few "friends" who think you've lost your mind.  This isn't
>too bad, there are better friends to be made than that.
     The people on PSI-L are a bunch of useless whimps who can not tolerate
a live communication.  Neither are they anywhere close to getting out
of their bodies and wandering through the Pentagon/Kremlin unfettered.
Neither are they close to being able to lift a car or a tank with their
minds.  Nor kill people at a distance.

     When you say you are not conviced that it is dangerous to
talk about experiences, you are either knowingly lying, or
you are very very dumb, or you are naive, or you don't really
believe in any of this.

     So all hostility aside, let me ask you a very pointed question.

     Let's say in the next year I manage to attain a full exertiorization
from my body and can go wandering freely to Mars, or the Kremlin or
the Pentagon.  How should I release this information to the world?

     What would you have me do?  What would all the rest of you
have me do?

     Come now, some serious answers.

>Homer writes:
>> This is because the very state you are in now of 'NOT HAVING
>   Homer, remember a time before you found Adore.  When searching for
>The Truth, you have to start with the reality you are currently at and
>build upon (or, take things apart) from there.  The reality we spend
>most of our waking lives at is a materialistic, solid-rock world.  And
>this reality is also one in which things die and don't come back again.
>Physical science has not shown the existance of a soul, nor will it ever.
     You don't know that.  Physcial science can and will show the
existance of the soul when it starts lifting cars and dropping
them on your head.

     You cant measure what you can not operate.  Everyone is working
through their body, so all they can measure is that.  Once you get
over that one little point, you can prove just about anything you
want about the soul.

>   So, there are people like me out there who aren't sure what's going
>on but would really like to find out.  Until shown otherwise, they have
>no reason to assume that our very existance is a spiritual experience.
>Of course they'll find out later, after they've had other spiritual
>experiences.  When I said I haven't had any, I meant since my earliest
>memories everything that has happened can be explained with everyday
     Except consciousness and self conscioussness and pain and love.

     Love and shame can not of force and mass be made.

>   Gee, the secret's out, I *have* had some odd things happen to me.
>But, I don't want to talk about them until I can reproduce them,
>and be sure that they weren't caused by the drug I was on at the time.
>But then again, perhaps the drug was abusing my body so much my
>spirit couldn't take it anymore.

    Drugs FREE your body from the abuse you are causing it.

     They cause a temporary and very addictive RELEASE of the
mental straight jacket we all placed on ourselves as a kid
to survive our parents.
     Some people live their whole lives around 'belief'.  They START OFF
with 'you cant be certain' so have faith.

     Belief is a gradient step to certainty.  Certainty is always
attainable on anything that is true that affects you.
Belief is a statement of probability.  Sometimes we have to act
and make a decision based on ideas we can not be sure exist.  Then
we have to make a judgement call as to their probability of being
true.  If you think it is very probably true, you say I believe.
If you think it is not very probably true, you say I doubt.

     Belief is a necessary part of data collecting, but
to make it an enforced end all by saying certainty is impossible, certainly
THAT is for losers.

     People are also walking around with a lot of false beliefs that
they call certainties.  The rock solid external universe for one.
Death for another.  You have no proof the external universe is not
a dream, you have not even one shred of evidence except the out rageousness
of the alternative theory.  And as for Death, you cant see spirits, and
you must use your body to talk to and hear them, so when the body dies,
nothing has changed.  The spirit is hanging out in the room wondering
what the hell is going on, and neither you nor them can communicate because
we are all a bunch of douchebags who have been using bodies to talk for
so long and so hard that we have lost our ability to operate directly.

     Getting out of your body, and seeing spirits directly ends the
illusion of death and separation but it also ends a condition of
unsspeakable degradation (being in a body) that most spirits do
not take lightly to admiting.

>to acheive enlightenment.  For me personally, Adore is not the way,
>and that is a major reason (one of many) for my leaving.

     Adore as presently stated hardly works for me too.  But
the way in is the way out, and without reoperation of responsibility
for the condition you are trying to solve, you will never get anywhere.
>> it all is.  Then I start name calling in return.
>   Homer's style of attack is another reason I am leaving Adore-L.
>When a list owner attacks a new subscriber, in effect giving him
>an instant bad reputation (to those who pay attention to it), before
>he even has a chance to post a single message, I really get pissed.
>   I don't know Bill, but his cool and relaxed response to that
>disgusting behaviour was very elegant and classy.  I think it is admirable
>that he kept such an even temper, even cracking jokes.

    Yes because he knows I mean business and it was calculated to
wring just such a reponse out of you.  Although he denies it,
he is responsible for getting anothers account closed down for
their views on gays, and it was with Bill Sklar in mind that I
wrote the HIGH TREASON APL.  If I had never ran into him, it
probably would never have been written.

>   Actually, I am certain that they do stop some people from posting.

     They are whimps and do not belong on the list.

>They have told me so.  Each one of us cares how other people think of
>us.  What matters is when you are willing to ignore them and trust
>your own instincts.  These people just haven't realized that you can't
>be happy if you are always worried about getting flamed by someone.
>But they will eventually.

     This is true.

     But they ain't gonna learn it by my being polite to their pansy
>   My father is no longer in the military.  He's never heard of Adore-L.
>He would probably giggle at me if I told him much about it.  He certainly
>would not call up his old cronies and have them send a team out to
>kidnap you Homer.  Honestly, I think you are paranoid about this.
>But that's your right.

     Probably your father could help me approach the Pentagon when
I have attained a stable and full fledged exteriorization.

     He would probably know all the right people to demonstrate in to
and would know who I could bring back information from the Kremlin to.

     Looks like I am gonna have to learn Russian.

 Homer               Adore-l list         6/19/89*Everything