.ll 72
.fo off
.co on 
.ce ((Editor's comments in double parenthesis - Homer))
.ce ADR - 244
.ce Copyright (C) Homer Wilson Smith
.ce Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes
======================================================================== 206
Resent-Date:  Tue, 20 Jun 89 01:42:33 EDT
Resent-From:  Homer 
Resent-To:    adore-l@ualtavm
Date:         Mon, 19 Jun 89 22:49:59 EDT
From:         Homer 
To:           SXWRR@ALASKA
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Mon, 19 Jun 89 12:50:13 -0900

Sorry this went via private e-mail, rather than to adore-l.

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>    This suggests that you know of a material (or energy, or some other
>elemental substance) that you can point to and say "This is LIFE". What is it?
>Or is it something that is un-detectable by us puny mortals?
    It is the stuff of Source, Will, and Consciousness.

     It is undetectable only if you are asleep.

     It is the color picture you see/her/feel around you and it is
the stuff of your self awareness.

     It is the stuff of your dreams.

     The world is a projected hologram.  The hologram is real,
but the implied external world of space matter energy and time is not.
>  Immortality is a fantasy, devised by people that are so afraid of
>death that they need to enshroud their mortality in a cloak of self-deception.
>You have to WANT to be immortal to ignore all the evidence we have that points
>toward conciousness (or life) as an electrochemical process. You have to really
>WANT to be immortal to live your whole life as a lie, looking down on people
>that don't share your delusions.

     Surely you jest?  You have no evidence of the existance of the external
world at all let alone electro chemical processes.    The entire external
picture is a dream.  Prove it is not.  I can prove it is, but it takes
some doing, and usually involves getting out of your body which would
be impossible if you WERE a body.

     People who have contempt such as you express about those who
recognize their past track and Immortality are sick.

>I sure wouldn't mind being Immortal, but I refuse to blindly believe that
>I am when all verifiable experiments point toward mortality.

    You delude yourself about ALL VERIFIABLE EXPERIMENTS.

    No one is asking you to BELIEVE anything about your Immortality.
One is asking you to consider how you might have hidden it from
yourself and why.  Also to consider the enormity of the pain this
engendered on you.
>   Immortality is a chosen delusion born of fear. Death is an integral and
>inevitable part of our lives. To fear death is normal, to abhor it is
     To abhor death is quite sane.  You are making a virtue out of
a perceived ncecessity.  You think you are mortal so you have chosen
to love it.  I REMEMBER who I am and some of were I was.  YOur
certainty of death can not take away my direct perception of my
past 20 trillion years.  You can call it delusion, but you can not
prove it to that it is delusion, and I have no interest in proving
to you that it is not.  In the mean while you face the grave and
I don't.

     That does not make better than you, but it does make me happier.

     Also more powerful, as I would have had to contact the impulse in
me that caused me to make myself mortal in the first place, the impulse
towards macabre humor I call Majesty.

     Power stems from operating majesty.

> Your assumptions may very well change your perception of reality, but it
>sure won't change reality's view of you. Just because you CHOSE to
>believe you are immortal, doesn't mean that you will live forever.
>Insanity is believing in something just because you think it should be true.
     I CHOSE to believe I was MORTAL.  Read it right.  Re operation of this
results in DIRECT MEMORY of have chosen to be MORTAL.  Since this happened
upwards of a few million years ago, it is clear I have been around for
a long time.

>How about a demonstration then? You seem to be saying that if you can get
>people to believe they are immortal, then they will believe that they are
>immortal (thus they will be immortal). Sure sounds like a con to me.

     You are a very stupid person.  As you have been unable to even
understand what I have been saying all along, you problems with it
are unworthy of further clarification.

     I demonstrate power to no one.

     By getting people to practice believing that they are MORTAL, they
will soon come to REMEMBER when they first chose to believe they
were MORTAL.   It will be EVIDENT to them at that point that they

     I have never said anyone should chose to believe they are IMMORTAL
and will thus become so.  It is outrageous that you should even pick
up that inmplication from anything I have said and if you wish to post
further on this list I suggest that you turn you brain on before
you put your mouth in gear.

     People who chose to believe in Immortality because they are afraid
of Mortality are losers.  People who chose to believe in Mortality because
they are afraid of Immortality are losers.

     People who chose to believe in Mortality because they are afraid
of Mortality are winners.  And soon come to recover their Immortality
which was there all along.

     Get it right before you criticize with your putrid mentality.

>I really would like to live forever... It would be well worth the
>chagrin. So make a fool out of me.... Demonstrate.

     You can die of chagrin.   Those who deny this are always
the first to do so.

>Why is it ridiculous? Is it less rediculous to believe that we are infinite
>conciousnesses that have always been around yet have learned so little that
>we need to delude ourselves into thinking we are mortal?

     It is not a problem of LEARNING.  It is a problem if CHOSING to be
DUMB for FUN.  Scary fun.

>You sure are parinoid. According to the scientific method, if you can't prove
>something, it just means that it hasn't been proven. For something to be not
>true, it must be disproven. However, if you can't prove something and an
>opposing hypothesis CAN be proven, then it weakens your hypothesis (although
>it doesn't disprove it).
    Yes indeed.  You can not prove I am mortal, yet you yap merrily along
about your false certainties.  I can on the other hand prove to myself
I am Immortal and so are you.  I can not prove it to you, because
frakly I can not even prove to myself that you exist.

    You might just be my hallucination along with the other jokers
on ADORE-L who make similar noises.

    Nor can I prove to you that I exist.  I could be YOUR dream.

    Thus proving things about consciousness is best done to oneself.

    However if I could get YOU to remember YOUR past track and what
you did and WHY then you would have some serious evidence that you
were Immortal.

     But I can only show you your Immortality in YOU, I can not show
you anything about me that would convince you.

>Howcum you only make passing refrences to fractals. If they are such a part
>of Adore, why don't you show us.  I've been subscribed to frac-l for quite
>a while now, but all I see there is lots of equation trading. Tell us in
>laymens terms about this brave new world that fractals will bring us.
    The posting on fractals was originally written for Frac-L way WAY back
when it ws new and before ADORE-L was even conceived.  I never sent it
to FRAC-L because I found FRAC-L was populated by Mortal jerks.  A lot
of good people too, but mainly the rock and mud crowd.  That forum
is for serious science of the physcial universe.  Most of them have
not figured out they are conscious yet, and so would not take kindly
to being woken up.

>What research have you done?? ("remembering forgeting" is a bit vague and
>also smacks of doubletalk)

     Only to very VERY stupid people.
>How very open-minded of you.

     Look who is talking.
>Now not only are we UNEDUCATED, but UNGRATEFUL as well. Funny, but I thought
>that this list was set up for critical discussions. If Homer doesn't want
>to give insights into Adore, he shouldn't have started discussing it at all.
>However, he CHOSE to start talking about it. Now he has the RESPONSIBILTY
>to defend his assertions with something more that word games and insults.
>Otherwise he suffers the CONSEQUENCE of being thought a fool.

    I have no such responsibility, and only fools think me a fool.

>well then, by your own parable, you can't be both a master and avoid getting
>stung. Anyone who has given the masses a new way of thinking has suffered
>mightily for it. You can't claim to be a master, yet shrug off questions
>with a "well, if I related my experiences, they'd crucify me". So what...
>after all, you are both a god and immortal. If you can't overcome the
>mortals that would persecute you, they still can't get rid of you.

     I am not a MASTER.  I am an APPREHENTICE to Beings FAR greater
than I could ever hope to be.

     However you are right about the scorpions.  The MASTER can however
chose to let them drown.  He is a MASTER of RESPECT and he can RESPECT
their drowning too.
 Homer               adore-l@ualtavm      6/20/89 No subject