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.ce ((Editor's comments in double parenthesis - Homer))
.ce ADR - 315
.ce Copyright (C) Homer Wilson Smith
.ce Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes
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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 89 03:32:14 EDT
From:         Homer 
Subject:      Re: Bill Sklar
To:           Adore-l list 
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 27 Jun 89 00:33:12 EST from 

>>    Having been on POLITICS I can say that it is a very civil list
>>and although I am sure the etiquette breaks down sometimes,
>>in general behavior such as tolerated here would be cause for immediate
>>expulsion there.
>I beg your pardon.  No one has *ever* been kicked off of POLITICS.  And
>no one would receive *immediate* explusion.
>>     In fact it was when you first came on to politics that it was
>>soon made into a subscription by request only list.  I don't suppose
>>you had anything to with that, eh?
>Well, now that I've managed to make it through the ADORE-L logs and
>read the relevant parts about Bill, now's a good time to jump in and
>defend him.  Homer came to me for his "evidence" against Bill.  I
>don't know who else he went to, but I can explain the POLITICS incident.
>Bill joined the list right around the time that another member started
>bashing gays.  Since Bill is an ardent gay-rights supporter, there's
>no real surprise there.  The other member ranted and raved about how
>terrible gays are.  When Bill tried to reason with him, the other
>member just refused to listen and ranted some more.  Bill waged a
>private-mail war with the other member (call him George for lack of
>anything better  ;-)).  George posted Bill's *private* mail to the
>list (the posting was in poor taste, but it had been made in private.
>George should never have forwarded it to the list).  There was havoc
>on the list for a while, until I contacted Bill and George privately.
>Bill was cooperative.  He apologized, and promised never to behave
>in that way again.  And guess what?  He hasn't.  In fact, Bill has
>encouraged other members to be more polite also.  He is now a "model"
>(oops!  There's that word again!) subscriber.
>Now George, on the other hand, has consistently attacked Bill on the
>list.  Bill, thanks to his clear logic and calm head, has gained the
>respect and support of most of the list members.  Bill was never the
>problem.  The other list member began the fight, then continued it
>long after Bill wanted to stop.
>As far as the other member's account being shut down, it was only
>for 1 day.  The system administrator at "George"'s site decided
>that George's behavior had been unacceptable.  *He* took it upon
>himself to close the account down.  From what I know of the incident,
>Bill never once asked for such a thing.  He merely asked that the
>other member be prevented from sending him private mail, a request
>he had made of George, yet found ignored.
>As far as any on-going complaints from Bill, I have not heard of
>any.  George's system administrator told me that some of the
>faculty and students at George's university (who joined POLITICS)
>complained to him about George's behavior.  He mentioned no
>complaints from Bill.
>I think you owe Bill an apology, Homer.  I have found him to be
>a person well-worth knowing.
>Lois Buwalda
>LISTSERV maintainer
>University of Central Florida

     I have not found Bill a person well worth knowing.

     And although your version of the story may be right, it is
unacceptable that anothers account was closed.

     My personal feelings about Bill stem from our own relationship
which decayed to intolerable for reasons that of course are only
my fault.

     However I will admit that if there had never been the incident
on politics, my personal feelings about Bill would never have entered
the arena of ADORE-L.

     I have no personal vendetta against Bill, I merely wish him out
of my life and see little reason to 'discuss' things with him, as
my views are mostly unacceptable to him or were during our last

     I have told him I wish no further private e-mail from him,
and he has complied.  He is welcome on ADORE-L to post about
what ever he wants including gay rights which may or may not be
of interest to him at this time on this list.

     There are a number of gays on ADORE-L and so the subject
will be of interest, but there are also a number of people with
less than accepting views towards gays here, and it must be
totally understood that it is OK to take an anti gay view point

     I also think it is time that the other party 'George'
sign on to ADORE-L and confront Bill directly.

     Then everyone can hear both sides of the story.

     By the way, I have no vested interest in who is right.

     I would however like the truth to be known.

 Homer               Adore-l list         6/27/89*Bill Sklar