.ll 72
.fo off
.co on 
.ce ((Editor's comments in double parenthesis - Homer))
.ce ADR - 317
.ce Copyright (C) Homer Wilson Smith
.ce Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes
======================================================================== 169
Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 89 02:05:15 EDT
From:         Homer 
Subject:      new policy
To:           adore-l@ualtavm

     1.)  All people who were signed onto ADORE-L in CONCEAL mode
have been forcefully removed from the list.

     They have been sent a short note inviting them back on in

     2.)  I refuse to accept any private mail sent to me from list
members about the subject of Sklar and the account closing.
If I continue to get private e-mail from Sklar and those who
are involved, I WILL POST IT TO THE LIST with or without an answer.
Any complaint that I am violating the personal privacy of the person
who sent me the private email with result in the removal of them
from the list FOREVER.

This will be stated clearly in the charter.

     4.)  If Sklar wishes to signoff ADORE-L NOW, I will drop the
matter of the account closing on the list.

     However if he decides to stay on, he becomes FAIR GAME on the list,
and I will press the matter until it is resolved.  Statements to the
effect that the account closing are non of my business are wrong,
they affect the security and SANCTITY of the entire list and I will
persue them until I am assured that the list is in no danger from
hostile external forces.

     Even innocent external forces.  Although it may be true that
Bill did not intentionally try to get an account closed, it is true
that he wrote to an administrator complaining about the behavior
of the other party.  It should be taken into consideration that
Bill may have acted under some provocation from the other party,
and in fact may have taken the normal course of action in such
matters just as anyone else may have done.

     However ADORE-L is not for just anyone.  We need EXCEPTIONAL
people on this list, people who can deal with their differences
with other people with out going to administrators or other
such actions.  Although Bill demeans the provocative nature
of this list, it would do us all well to remember that the
charter allows great potential in this matter and those who
possibly might not be able to handle it should be removed.

     5.)  Since the account closing incident was seminal to the
writing of the APL's, the design of ADORE-L and my attitude towards
this list in general, it is more than fitting that the people who
were originally involved in it should come here to air their differences.
I never had the intention of bringing the conflict home, so to speak,
but now that it is here, irony has become destiny.

     Those of you who do not wish to partake in this matter or who
resent your readers being filled up by something you would rather not
can either delete the mail without reading it, or leave the list
for the duration.

     6.)  I have no personal vendetta against Sklar, although I
am not fully convinced that the whole story has been told nor that
Sklar's intentions on ADORE-L are entirely good.

     It should be remembered, that my personal feelings about Bill
have nothing to do with the account closing incident, but rather
with a previous history between us.  If there had never been
that previous history, then probably my original posting about
Bill would not have been so strong and virulent.
     However, if there had never been the account closing incident,
then there would never have been a posting about Bill at all regardless
of my personal feelings.

     7.)  I have a right to my suspicions, and as my only interest
is the saftey of the list, I will persue them as long as I have to
in order to do my duty to the list.

     I do not consider that I have been terribly wronged by Sklar,
and all licking of his wounds to the contrary, I do not consider
that I have terribly wronged him.  Although some on this list
would try to make it seem as if I am the bad guy and Sklar is
the good guy, in reality I am not the significant other party to
the conflict.  If it were not for the danger to the list, I could
and would forget Bill over night.

     However the true other party to the conflict is VERY VERY mad
at Bill Sklar and considers that he has been greviously wronged
by Bill.  Thus the conflict is very real and Bill's constant
protestations that he had no idea of what I was talking about is
either being very unaware of something, or else is denying the
intensity to which this thing has descended.

     8.)  If Sklar wishes, I and probably everyone else, would
be interested to hear his side of the story as he knows it.
A step by step chronology backed by supportive postings of the time,
would go a long way towards allaying my fears of his existance
on ADORE-L.  I am not the only one concerned.
     Further statements that it is not my business will be taken as
a sign of guilt and the inappropriateness of his further
inhabitancy of ADORE-L.

    I will MAKE it NOT my business by removing him from the list.

     9.)  The other party involved (you know, its not me although
it sure seems that way) has been invited to join the list and
tell his side of the story.   If he choses to not defend himself,
then he will probably be judged by his default.

     10.)  Those of you who are interested in seeing part of the
incident for yourselves, may obtain the logs from the politics list
dated log8903a.  The incident actually started at the end of
February but the log8902d is no longer available.  It is possible
that LOIS may not want the logs observed, but as long as they
are open to public view, you may get them by

     tell listserv at ucf1vm get politics log8903a

     11.)  As a matter of record the following is a history of
the CONCEAL mode incident as I can remember it.

     A week or so ago Bill Sklar signed onto ADORE-L in conceal mode.
Due to a general absence of documentation on conceal mode in the standard
material provided to list owners I did not know about this, and so did not
think to check for it.

    If I had known about it, I would not have exposed his presence on the
list, but would have posted the now imfamous posting anyhow with out
mentioning his name.  A discussion of CONCEAL mode would have taken

     Because I did not know about the conceal mode, I exposed his
existance to the list which is a violation of good listserv ethics.

     A week later Bill chose to signoff that account, and signon
to ADORE-L in conceal mode using another account.  He continued
to post from his first account, but received ADORE-L through his
concealed second account.

     While skimming through the mail of that day, still not
knowing about conceal mode, even though Bill had already posted
describing what it was, I found his signoff letter that ADORE-L
sent me and I reposted it to the list as general information.
The very next letter in my reader was his signing back on on
the second account.  This too I posted to correct the impression
that he was gone from my first forwarding.

     Thus I unintentionally exposed both of his efforts to signon
in conceal mode.  Then I read his posting about conceal mode,
and checked out the list definition to find out who else
was in conceal mode.  Then started a discussion on conceal mode.

     Finally Bill signed off his second account, and signed back
onto ADORE-L with his first account without conceal mode.

     However another interested party who later came to his defense,
LOIS, the moderator from POLITICS, was allowed to remain in CONCEAL mode
until now.  She has since been removed and invited to rejoin without
conceal mode.

     A thrid party, who has also since been removed and reinvited,
was also in conceal mode, but progbably for reasons unrelated to
the incident under consideration.

     10.)  Those who attack my ego, wish they had one.

 Homer               adore-l@ualtavm      6/28/89 new policy