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.ce ((Editor's comments in double parenthesis - Homer))
.ce ADR - 318
.ce Copyright (C) Homer Wilson Smith
.ce Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes
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Date:         Tue, 27 Jun 89 00:33:12 EST
Reply-To:     Adore-l list 
Sender:       Adore-l list 
From:         Lois Buwalda 
Subject:      Bill Sklar
To:           Homer 'The Pontiff' Smith ,
              Jane Elizabeth Staller 

>    Having been on POLITICS I can say that it is a very civil list
>and although I am sure the etiquette breaks down sometimes,
>in general behavior such as tolerated here would be cause for immediate
>expulsion there.

I beg your pardon.  No one has *ever* been kicked off of POLITICS.  And
no one would receive *immediate* explusion.

>     In fact it was when you first came on to politics that it was
>soon made into a subscription by request only list.  I don't suppose
>you had anything to with that, eh?

Well, now that I've managed to make it through the ADORE-L logs and
read the relevant parts about Bill, now's a good time to jump in and
defend him.  Homer came to me for his "evidence" against Bill.  I
don't know who else he went to, but I can explain the POLITICS incident.
Bill joined the list right around the time that another member started
bashing gays.  Since Bill is an ardent gay-rights supporter, there's
no real surprise there.  The other member ranted and raved about how
terrible gays are.  When Bill tried to reason with him, the other
member just refused to listen and ranted some more.  Bill waged a
private-mail war with the other member (call him George for lack of
anything better  ;-)).  George posted Bill's *private* mail to the
list (the posting was in poor taste, but it had been made in private.
George should never have forwarded it to the list).  There was havoc
on the list for a while, until I contacted Bill and George privately.
Bill was cooperative.  He apologized, and promised never to behave
in that way again.  And guess what?  He hasn't.  In fact, Bill has
encouraged other members to be more polite also.  He is now a "model"
(oops!  There's that word again!) subscriber.

Now George, on the other hand, has consistently attacked Bill on the
list.  Bill, thanks to his clear logic and calm head, has gained the
respect and support of most of the list members.  Bill was never the
problem.  The other list member began the fight, then continued it
long after Bill wanted to stop.

As far as the other member's account being shut down, it was only
for 1 day.  The system administrator at "George"'s site decided
that George's behavior had been unacceptable.  *He* took it upon
himself to close the account down.  From what I know of the incident,
Bill never once asked for such a thing.  He merely asked that the
other member be prevented from sending him private mail, a request
he had made of George, yet found ignored.

As far as any on-going complaints from Bill, I have not heard of
any.  George's system administrator told me that some of the
faculty and students at George's university (who joined POLITICS)
complained to him about George's behavior.  He mentioned no
complaints from Bill.

I think you owe Bill an apology, Homer.  I have found him to be
a person well-worth knowing.

Lois Buwalda
LISTSERV maintainer
University of Central Florida
 Lois Buwalda        Homer 'The Pontiff'  6/27/89 Bill Sklar