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.ce ((Editor's comments in double parenthesis - Homer))
.ce ADR - 321
.ce Copyright (C) Homer Wilson Smith
.ce Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes
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Date:         Wed, 28 Jun 89 19:24:36 EDT
From:         Homer 
Subject:      Re: Responsibility
To:           Adore-l list ,
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 21 Apr 89 15:09:14 EST from 

>Homer writes:
>Remember, children are people too.  Believe it or not, kids *do*
>make decisions on their own.  I don't think they are the mindless
>blank-slate robots people like to think they are.  We were all there
>before, remember?  No matter how much you tell a child, they
>can still turn around and make perfectly valid judgements of their
>So, I'd tend to believe that the older a child gets the
>less influence the parents' nagging will have.  But, even
>younger kids have original thoughts.  I wish someone would
>convince the PMRC of this, so they'd get off our kids' backs!
>(For those who don't know, the Parent's Music Resource Center
>is an American group of frightened parents that is attempting
>to bully the American music industry into censoring (via
>so-called "warning labels") its artists, supposedly in the
>protection of our "innocent and impressionable" children.)
>My guess is that kids make 75% of their own decisions, with
>maybe 7 or 8% due to their parents and 18 or 17% due to
>peer influences.  (Of course, this is all just conjecture,
>but I'm basing it on my own childhood.)  Granted not all
>their decisions are the "best," but they are original.
>Homer's statement is VERY surprising to me, actually.
>I would have thought he'd say, "we created this life,
>and are responsible for every aspect of it, good or bad."
>This would seem to put 100% responsibility on the CHILD,
>not the parents!  I quote from Adore:
>*                          THE ADORIAN VIEW.
>*      The Adorian view is that we all are Immortal beings,
>* responsibile through DIRECT CHOICE not only for our own existance in
>* this universe, but for the universe as well.  Those that believe in
>* DEATH FOREVER or HELL FOREVER for ANYONE, or who can see no personal
>* prior responsibility for their existance on Earth and the
>* circumstances of their birth, will find themselves very much under
>* scrutiny as the source of the problem rather than as the solution to
>* the problem.
>Doesn't this contradict the statement that the father is
>half responsible and the mother is half responsible for
>their child's personality?
>If the child WANTS to be a rapist/murderer/criminal, the parent's
>are not going to be able to do a thing to stop it from happening!
>                                                Jim McCabe
>                                                MCCABE @ MTUS5.BITNET

     We are all totally responsibile for EVERYTHING including each other,
and each others responsibility or irresponsibility.

     Any one of us can 'take operational control' over anyone else,
especially those who are not taking operational control over things.

     In general we do not like to control others, and we do not
like to be controlled but this is usually because such control is
to our detriment.  There are many situations in life where the
control of the master is welcome to the apprehentice, in dance,
music, gymnastics, since it eventually leads to mastery and independance
of ones self.

     In fact people spend their whole lives looking for some one to
'control' them so that they might learn to control themselves.
Usually they only find people willing to use them abuse them and
throw them away.  Thus control gets a bad name.

     In the sphere of human activity, all actions that are anti social,
criminal, psychotic, neurotic, anti surival etc, are the results
of spiritual, mental, emotional and physical aberrations resulting
from suppressed memories of torture, death and disaster in the mind.

     People tend to do to others what is done to them.  Believe it
or not, many life times after Vesuvius went off, those people could
be found in future lives burning villages and dropping Napalm.
They become winners by being the thing that won over them, in this
case a volcano.

      Spirits have also been degraded down through the ages by
other spirits who were much more powerful, but further along the
garden path to some serious bad ethics.

     Thus we all have in our minds things too terrible to look at
or to confront and they make us do bad things when the going
gets rough.

     Each child is born in sin.  This means that he/she has a few thousand
lifetimes behind them full of pain and torment, and loss, and shame,
and withholds, and problems, and failures and misunderstood mechanisms,
false ideas, wrong philosophies, and much to hide.

     Not to mention no awareness of perfect, total responsibility or
the way to personal freedom and integrity.

     When they are born, they are not helped to clean up this mess.
Most people make it in pretty good condition through their childhood,
but some don't.

     Imagine having a child, and keeping him in a dark closet
for 10 years, taking him out to hit him and burn him once a week,
and keeping him hungry enough to eat his own feces and the spiders
that crawl by once in a while.

     How would this child turn out?

     Now imagine a whole planet full of people who have been through
this life after life after life (with some good times too) and
then let them all out for a free for all.  Thus you get planet Earth.

     There is not a single problem that any human being has ever had
or ever will have that can not be directly addressed by getting the
being to get to its source in this life and in his previous 2 trillion
or so years.  The evil and degradation on the track is so bad it is
almost socially illegal to talk about it.

     However if the beings who are trying to help their child have
themsevles failed to confront and admit to their own garbage, it
can be assured that the child will revolt and become what the
parents fear most.

     Thus BECAUSE all are totally responsibile, and because each
can do something about the condition, it is somewhat acceptable to
blame it all on the parents, for failing to clean up the childs
ugly past which causes him to continue to act like the little
tyrant he is.

     Each person can be held accountable to the degree that they
KNOW that they are responsible.  The child has thrown all his
awareness away by his degraded decision to become a baby (the pits)
and the parents, not having learned anything in their years of
growing up, are also not in good enough shape to really do anything
about the new child.  Thus life tends to grow and continue out of
control, except for the FORCEFULL control of punishment and warnings,
and beatings and other ilk that is normally considered good
and necessary child upbringing on this hunk of junk planet.

     Thus one can not really blame the child or the parents, except
to realize that long ago each chose their present state of
degradation knowing full well that it would render them inoperable,
and thus in some sense culpable.  But this does not mean that
one can then expect them to DO anything about it.

     The only people that can DO anything about it are those who
KNOW about total responsibility, have cleaned up their own
past track (not I) and can therefore get others to look at their
past existance and clean up their mess.

     Once the mess is gone, then you will have a fully responsible
ethical being who would be a pleasure and an asset to be around,
much as Nick wishes I would be, but which I am not, and neither
is Nick.

     You can not solve the problem from a one lifetime viewpoint.
You can not look at Hitler's mother and say what did she do to
make Hitler what he was.

    You CAN look at Hitler's mother however, and ask what was HER
mess that made her unable to handle the being she allowed to take over
her baby body.  Because Hitler was an unhandled criminal (still walking
around us by the way, probably in college or something) you can
be sure that both of his parents were unhandled criminals, although
maybe not in this life.

     You can always tell these kind of parents, they stand around
wringing their hands, moaning 'What have we done wrong?'

     You don't want to know, they do not want to know, and that
is why it is allowed to continue.

 Homer               Adore-l list         6/28/89*Responsibility