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.ce Copyright (C) Homer Wilson Smith
.ce Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes
 
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Resent-Date:  Sat, 09 Sep 89 17:46:58 EDT
Resent-From:  Homer 
Resent-To:    adore-l@ualtavm



>Your scenario
>just allows a convenient way to keep believing in these unproven superstitions.
>Are you so frightened by reality that you need to invent an entirely alternate
>one?

    Is this the Skeptics list or the Hatefull Disbelievers list?

    If I were able to achieve a full exteriorization and could
prove it for all practical purposes, like going through walls,
reading books a couple of countries away etc, if I could remember
a past live or two or the periods BETWEEN bodies, do you think for
a moment I would come running to this list with the good news as long
as people like Jean McKendree on are it?

     Do you think I would stand for a moment for Jean to do experiments
on my Immortality and ability to confront not only Death but Eternal Life?

     The above rantings of Jean McKendree sound just like the rantings
of a person who has been killing little girls for fun and for free
in their past 10 lifetimes and they will do anything to make sure that
you and I do not find out that we are Immortal and can remember lest
we remember THEM and what they did.

     I am surprised you allow Divine Slime like McKendree on this list
as it is doing non of you any good at all.

    You are skeptics.  This means you have not formed a firm
belief either way.

    You are not assholes.  This means you WANT to be Immortal, and
wish all this fairy tale stuff about exteriorization were true, but
you just cant see your way through all the objections.

     But you are spirits alivened with the hope and possibility
of your future emancipation from the regimentation and slavery to
taking care of a body and dying life after life and forgetting it all.

     So you are willing to keep looking and keep looking and glossing
over the negative evidence cause there is lots and lots and lots of it,
and if you give it half a chance it will eat you, and you keep looking for
that one little shread of light that will show you you were right all along.

     If you give into the nay sayers, those that chortle at Immortality
and exteriorization and past and future track, then you are no longer
a skeptic but a firm believer in the final religion of death called
Dust in the Wind.

     Do not let this happen to you.  It is your freedom you seek.
Keep the McKendrees in a cage where they belong until they wise up
and admit they don't know everything there is to know about you or
themselves.   THEY may be a body, THEY may not be able to get
out of one, but that does not mean it is true for you.  Don't
let the robots tell you there is no consciousness.  There may not
be for them, but thats them.

     If you keep looking, and apply the principle of 'The way in,
is the way out' you will find the evidence you are looking for.

     You ARE looking for it arn't you?

     You had better be, or else you are dead meat in the scheme of things.

     The way in is the way out means that if you want to leave a body,
practice what ever you did to get IN to a body.

     It works.  Unlike the books that McKendree reads and is so proud of
because they didn't work.


>
>>Your scenario
>>just allows a convenient way to keep believing in these unproven
>superstitions.
>>Are you so frightened by reality that you need to invent an entirely alternate
>>one?
>
>    Is this the Skeptics list or the Hatefull Disbelievers list?

No, you are quite right; this is a skeptics' list.  I would like to remind
Homer, and one and all of the general rules regarding intellectual
conversation on the list, though.

>     I am surprised you allow Divine Slime like McKendree on this list
>as it is doing non of you any good at all.

Perhaps, I should point out that you are very close to being more than merely
offensive.

*****************************************************************************
     I am being offensive but Mckendree in telling me I cant confront
reality is not?  Grow up Gall, your own personal prejudice in the matter
is showing through.  It is fine if the side you are on insults the
side you are not on, but not fine if the side you are not on insults
the side you are on.

     There are higher monuments to hypocrisy, but not many.

**************************************************************************


>    You are skeptics.  This means you have not formed a firm
>belief either way.

Well, no.  The sort of person you are referring to here is an agnostic.  Few
of the professionals on this list have _no_ belief about these sorts of
matters.  Being a skeptic entails being highly critical of 'phenomena'
which are as yet not widely accepted.  Scientific skepticism requires us to
evaluate all of these notions and subject them to scrutiny.  I would suggest
that there is far more to be said about someone who has highly refined and
critical beliefs than one who seems to believe a distorted, and highly
unsubstantiated (and in principle, unverifiable) set of 'facts'.

>    You are not assholes.  This means you WANT to be Immortal, and
>wish all this fairy tale stuff about exteriorization were true, but
>you just cant see your way through all the objections.

I should hope that you would include that gratuitous rider. However,
you make far too many assumptions as to what someone like me or Jean
would want from life.

***********************************************************************
     You don't want to be Immortal?  You DESIRE to be Dust in the Wind?
Common Gall, I KNOW you are lying.  EVERYONE except the sadly insane
wish Immortality.  And even they can be cleaned up.

********************************************************************
Your attitude is reminicent of the Christian who
simply cannot believe how someone wouldn't want 'eternal life' and to
share in the 'love of Christ'!  Get this straight.... beliefs don't exist
in a vacuum!  My beliefs have to hang together.  There are too many beliefs
in my personal (and public) pantheon with excellent corroboration that would
have to be excised that I would be bereft of anything I could base on
the world as I find it.  Your 'facts' are simply non-sequitur from the
evidence available.  Personal experiences can be misconstrued mightily,
and this is exactly why we have the realist-anti-realist debate in the
philosophy of science.  You need better arguments than "I know what I know"
Epistemology derived from current pop music is less than reliable.

>     You had better be, or else you are dead meat in the scheme of things.
>

Thank you for the moral admonition..............

Regards,

Norm Gall
Dept of Philosophy     York University     Toronto, Ontario, Canada