.ll 72
.fo off
.co on 
.ce ((Editor's comments in double parenthesis - Homer))
.ce ADR - 451
.ce Copyright (C) Homer Wilson Smith
.ce Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes
======================================================================== 292
Date:         Sun, 17 Sep 89 21:38:24 EDT
From:         Homer 
Subject:      Mark Hayes.
To:           Adore-l list 
In-Reply-To:  Message of Sun, 17 Sep 89 18:20:42 MDT from 

>"Juvenile" - Lacking maturity;  childish.  Homer's ravings tend
>to possess the histrionic quality of a child who isn't getting
>enough attention.

     I am getting more attention than most people could handle,
or would be willing to get into.

     If you are so sure of your position why are YOU wasting your time
giving Homer the attention he so craves?

     Whyare you on this list?

     Do you think for a moment you are going to suddenly change my mind and
I will recant and change the name of the list to MEAT-L?

     Do you expect to save others on this list from being sucked into
a false world philosophy before it is too late?  Are you that capable
a writer and dissector of truth that you feel people need you to protect
them from themselves so much?

     Do the others on the list WANT you to save them from their mental
weakness, from being swayed?

     Or do you just like to shoot your mouth off figuring you are getting
a lot of applause in the silent sidelines.

     Although this posting of yours is considerably better than your
first two, certainly well within the 50 percent rule, you have still
failed to post a counter view or counter evidence.

     I propose you don't, because you cant.  You are terrified it will
be shredded up by real people who can really think.

     I suspect a hidden agenda here, hidden even from your own
mature conscious mind, one that involves debunking any evidence
or need for past lives, so that YOU do not have to own up YOURS.

>He makes up fantasy worlds of magical,
>immortal beings

     You can not possibly know that what I say is made up.  Just because
YOU have no memory of past lives does not mean that millions of
other people don't.  Just because YOU have not lived before does
not mean I haven't.

     I HAVE lived before and will live again, forever.

     Although I can not say I remember clearly my past 3 trillion
years, I also can not remember clearly yesterday.

     However the subject of whether or not I have lived before or
will again is a closed subject to me as all the evidence I would
need is in.  My own memory not only of parts of that past, but also
my memory of chosing to forget it all and become a meatball.

     How many memories of yesterday do you need before you are willing
to admit there was a yesterday?  Once you HAVE a real memory of yesterday,
what further evidence could change your mind back to yesterday did not happen?

     Of course you have to watch out for false memories, and implanted
memories (during between lives periods) and for memories you STOLE from
other beings and bodies.  But in there if you look carefully, WHEN YOU
FINALLY RUN INTO A MEMORY OF YOURS, you will have no doubt left.

     However the amount of PAIN in those memories is appalling  and I
am only willing to discuss it when I have the inner wherewithall to do it.

>and plays house with them on the net.

     You bet.

     There are MANY on this net and elsewhere in the world who would
love to have more of what I post, from me and from others more experienced,
and it is unfortunate that this subject is so suppressed as to be almost
officially illegal in this country.

     If there were just one person on this net who had really made it,
was stable out of his body, could remember where he has been and who
he was, could determine his future in a satisfactory way, and who could
help others attain the same state, I would hope that he did nothing
but post all day long every detail of his wisdom.  I for one would
read every word of it, and make sure that it never got lost.

>He fires
>off absurd, manic pronouncements much too voluminously to permit
>rational criticism - rather like the child who rings a doorbell
>and runs away.

     Your charge is that my INTENTION is to prevent rational
criticism by posting so much no one could possibly respond to any of it.
I dare say they would not be able to READ any of it either.

     Your charges are ludicrous and seriously detract from the credibility
of your position.

     It is fine that you feel that Immortality is a form of washing hogs,
it is fine for you to post your feelings and counter beliefs, but
your questioning my motives is very off the deep end.

     I write as I do because I feel as I do and I have some small measure
of courage to speak my mind which the MATURE members of this list will
admit to.  I write as much as I do because it all needs to be said,
you have the rest of eternity to respond to it and I hope you do.

     I write as I wish someone else had written but did not when I was
a child.  I am trying to provide data that will help someone so they will
not have to go through the pain and agony as I did.  This data and world
view did not come easily, I almost lost my life over it more than once,
and I would have been endlessly thankful for correct help along the way.
I am thankful for those that did write what they could and I for one
hardly feel alone in the matter.

>"Egotistical" - Self-centered, self-important.  Homer appears to
>regard himself as some sort of high priest, heading the cult of
>his imaginary "philosophy".

     We are all high priests of our own lives.  We all need to formulate
our own divine operating religion, mine just happens to have a name.
I am showing you ME when I show you ADORE, and although it is likely that
many others will see themselves in my religion, they will also see the
need to formulate their own way out.

     That there IS no way out however, does not cut the grade.

>He boasts of important connections,

     You SAY it is boasting, this does not make it so.

     Further I never said they were IMPORTANT or WISE or even DESIRABLE.
Although I assure you THEY think of themselves this way.

     From what I can tell, they have attained some measure of spiritual
power, they could give you nightmares if they wished for example,
they probably can get out of their bodies as they claim and some of them
could probably hurt your body from a distance with their minds.

     But most of them are militant, and very self assured, and lacking
in any respect or tolerance for other religions (including no religion),
or for any other technology for freeing the human spirit from the body
or the shackles of its buried memories.

     There are many such groups, some are very much in the spotlight
today and others most have never heard of.

     I am not going to mention names because I take what I say
seriously, and I am not about to stat attacking them publically.
I feel that the principles that they were founded on were good and
workable, but as in all human affairs, the people who take it upon
themselves to 'help' the world usually just dramatize their own
need for help rather than do anyone any good.

     This is ironic since the tech to help people is really there,
but they are not using it on themselves, and they are forcing
warped and unworkable versions of it on others.

>and how hair-raising some of his communications to them have

     This is the truth.  When you enter the Immortality circle you find
there are many many people already devoted to the cause who take their
religion very seriously, almost violently.  They would be more than
happy to leave you dead in an alley if they thought it would serve their
Master or their cause.  Fanaticism comes in all sizes.  Usually it
is made worse by an US/THEM dichotomy, WE go to HEAVEN FOREVER, and YOU
go to HELL FOREVER, and WE shall help YOU get there.  Get it?

     Fortunately Adorian thought does not admit to this dichotomy of
destinations, class is an attitude, that all should live for ever
and be my friend.  The Adorian view is that ALL are men shall attain
the awakened state one day, and that
killing people or torturing them or incarcerating them because
of their beliefs is a no no unless they are out to do it to you.
Adorians realize that when you kill someone you just bust his or her
jail cell wide open and the spirit flys away to grab a new baby body,
possibly a child of yours just after it is born.

     Thus Adorians are in no hurry to kill any one, even and most
especially their deepest enemies.

     Adorians would much prefer that such people were sent to Earth to
live life after life of facing the grave.

     But even that only in their worst moments.  Basically Adorians want
friends.  Immortal friends would be great, but any will do.

>He posts rambling, pompous notes to any list he can find
>an excuse to swagger into.

     Pompous?  Ever look in a mirror?

     I inhabit a number of lists.  ETHICS-L, DISARM-L, FRAC-L, VIRUS-L,
SECURITY.  The subjects they touch upon are near and dear to my heart but
in the case of DISARM-L they are mostly very anti religious meat balls,
who wish the discussion to take a more non religious turn.

     None the less I have a duty to state my world view so that others
might at least consider it in their quest for peace.

     The Adorian view is that war is a form of spiritual insanity, a result
of tramautization of past life memory and can only be addressed by getting
the being own up to what he has been doing for the past trillion years.

     This by the way is a commonly accepted view in psychiatric circles,
they just don't consider going before this life time when they look for
the trauma, and so they fail more often than not.
>"Pseudo-intellectual" - Concerned with the appearance of
>intellectuality, but lacking genuine substance.

     The views that I propose on this list are very well thought out,
very VERY full of substance and in fact every one of them can be
proven if they are true.  It is fine if you disagree with them,
they may all be false, but you cant disagree or disprove a view
that has no substance.

     Again you damage your own credibility by asserting things about
my views that are clearly false.

Examples are too
>numerous to mention, but I have in mind things like "the
>rejection of religion is itself a religion".  Form without

     Since you can not know if you die, since you can not prove that
you have never lived before, since you can not even prove that the
external physical universe is not just an apparency in your consciousness,
I must assume that your holding to those world views is an act of FAITH.

     Usually faith born of the emotional outrage engendered by considering
the idea that we created this place and chose to be here.

     Yes it is a nasty world.

     Immortality on the other hand can be proven very easily to those
who can get out of their bodies, and can remember who they are and what
they are doing in this gallery, and frankly the closer you get
to truth the less FAITH is involved.

     If faith is what makes a religion (it doesn't) then being a mortal
meat ball is a world class religion.  You have no evidence that the external
universe is not a dream or that it exists at all.  It is FAITH that you
continue to assert that it must exist because it is so consistent
from day to day and so hurtfull and solid.  But its solidity is VIRTUAL,
an apparency, things are 'solid' in dreams, and your lack of memory
of your past 3 trillion years is your own personal spiritual shame.

     Mortals bow and pray to the God of Time, Stone and Dust in the Wind.
Their Faith is not to be belittled.  Pride however is Eternal Home.

>"Bullshit" - Excrement, from a bull;  a metaphor for empty,
>pretentious postings, which might, ironically enough, be truly
>described as "content-free".

     Except they are not content free.  Just because you disagree
with something does not mean there is no content.  You cant disagree
with something where nothing was said.

     Mortal assholes pull this thing on me all the time.  They say
what I have said is content free merely because they consider it
unprovable.  Mccabe did it, others did it and it is a very standard
effort to discrdit what someone says by saying that he didn't say
anything in the first place.

     Thus what is ironic is that when a mortal says that the Adorian
world view is content free, what he means is it has so much content
he does not know what to do with it, except to say that there is nothing
there, so therefore he doesn't HAVE to do anything with it.

     The dreamball world view is an exact opposite of the
meatball world view, much like matter and anti matter.  For every
phenomenon and explanation of cause that the dreamball view has, there
is an equally serious explanation in the meatball view.

     To say that one is true and the other content free is false.

     They both have all the content you could ever wish in two theories,
thus the point is not content but correctness.

>ADORE-L: feces of a different species.

     Being made of meat you must have a lot of experience with feces.

 Homer               Adore-l list         9/17/89 Mark Hayes.