Some people seem to think that the idea that they don't exist is
the height of philosophical erudition.

     Maybe they are identified with something that in fact does not
exist, that would explain a lot.

     Mostly its the height of academentia, too much schooling, and no
looking.  You know like most Professors with PhD's.

     There are illusions in the world, some say space and time for
example, but just because separation in space and time may be an
illusion doesn't mean that individuality between conscious units is also
an illusion.

     It might be said more accurately, the illusion is that there is NO
connection between conscious units, as many meatballs think.  I am
here and you are there and nothing connects us but empty space.

     The space time mind has a hard time with something that has two
sides, ONE and MANY, something that is connected and yet individual.

     The separation, the differenceness is very real, the oneness is
also real.

     Separation and oneness are two DIFFERENT functions of the AllThatIS
and its instantiations, the conscious unit.

     What is wrong with the water analogy for souls, is it implies
something that philosophy calls POINTILISM which stipulates that a given
object is made of smaller objects which are made up of smaller objects
which finally come to a fundamental object which is not further

     Be careful here with the words, pointilistic refers to the objects
which are divisible, and not to the final indivisible point or part they
are made of!

     Water is an example of a pointilistic object, water can be divided
into smaller and smaller parts which are still just water until we come
to the H2O molecule, at which point it can be divided no further without
rendering it no longer water.

     For example if one has a pail of water, the water in the pail is
pointilistic, divisible into smaller amounts of water.

     Thus one can scoop a cup of water out of a pail, and the water in
the cup is pretty much the same as the water in the pail, just less of

     Further the water in the cup can be returned to the pail where it's
pointilistic nature blends it right back into the pointilistic nature of
the bigger body of water.

     Here's the crux, the NEXT time you take out another scoop of water,
it is a different scoop of water.  It may look and behave IN GENERAL the
same, but it is made of a whole NEW collection of different parts,
namely different water molecules.

     Now each water molecule may behave just like every other water
molecule, there may in fact be no way to tell them apart, but the fact
remains that two different water molecules are always going to be two
DIFFERENT molecules.

     Thus just because it walks, talks and smells like a Homer, doesn't
mean it is Homer, get it?

     What makes water water, is an ARRANGEMENT of its fundamental
pointilistic parts (molecules), and although the second cup looks the
same as the first cup, and has the same basic arrangement as the first
cup, almost every molecule in it will probably be a different molecule.


     To the degree that one only cares about the general nature of the
water in the cup, namely the ARRANGEMENT OF ITS POINTILISTIC PARTS, then
the fact that all the parts in the second cup are different from the
parts in the first cup is irrelevant.

     But if you care about the exact constitution of the water in the
cup, you have two very different cups of water.

     It is a common piece of new age crystal gazer nonsense to claim
that the AllThatIs is like a big ocean of theta which is pointilistic in
nature, divisible.

     It can either be in the all is one state, or little cups of theta
can separate off to become individuals.

     There may still be a connection between the individual cup of water
and the bigger body of the ocean, perhaps we talk about waves on the
ocean rather than cups, but this doesn't change the fundamental fact
that every wave is a NEW collection of water molecules.

     In fact as the wave moves through the ocean, the water molecules
stay in place moving up and down, and the wave itself becomes composed
of new molecules every second.

     A wave is an arrangement of parts, its identity is in the
arrangement of parts, not in the specific parts involved, any old parts
will do.

     The problem with the analogy is it postulates that a thetan is a
pointilistic sub collection taken from a bigger collection of the same


     In the ocean analogy a thetan is a particular arrangement and
subset of molecules of the bigger sea that are individuated off from
bigger sea.

     In this theory, if the thetan dissolves back into the sea, his
arrangement of parts is lost for good, and all his parts are dispersed
into the bigger ocean, and the next thetan that emerges WILL BE A
DIFFERENT THETAN, because he is made of different parts in a similar but
ultimately different arrangement.

     This is not immortality my friend, this is little better than being
a body and having all its atoms return to the ground to eventually
become other bodies.

     The parts live on, but the specific collection and arrangement of
parts do not, thus each new body is a new individual and immortality is
not obtained except as dust in the wind.

     The water analogy is the from dust to dust view of the spiritual
world, but its more water to water.

     The truth is a thetan is not pointilistic in nature, it is not made
of parts in an arrangement.  If anything, the thetan IS a fundamental
part, like a molecule of water, not a cup of water.

     And yes there are cups of thetans, they are called clusters.

     Thus the molecule of water may return to the ocean, BUT IT REMAINS
ITSELF FOREVER and the next time it separates from the ocean IT IS THE
SAME MOLECULE, the same thetan.

     Returning a cup of water to the ocean and returning a single
indivisible molecule to the ocean are two completely different things.

     The molecule retains its fundamental individuality WHILE it is
immersed in the ocean, the cup of water does not.

     Thus if you are cup of water, when you dissolve back into the
ocean, you will never exist again as you.

     I don't mean as your personality, or ability packages, or nut cake
ideas, I mean as YOU.

     Whereas if you are a molecule, then 20 trillion universal cycles
from now, when you once again manifest 'for the very first time', you
will still be you again and KNOW IT.

     First thought upon waking is 'Here I am again, woowee!'

     Eternal recognition does not depend on retained memory of
experience from previous dream times, as all memory is lost for good,
once the being enters native state.

     Eternal recognition is a connection the being has, not with his
past, but with himself.  a recognition that can not be created nor
destroyed, that recognition is as co eternal as he is.

     It is something of the form, "I AM, I KNOW I AM, therefore
I AM FOREVER. Cool.  Let's go back to sleep..."
     That's inherent awareness of The Proof you see, certainty
of existence means certain of being scalar, which means certainty
of no space or time to come, go or CHANGE in.

     The ONE and the MANY enjoy EQUAL ontological status, neither comes
from the other, and neither returns to the other.

     Ontology is the study of BEING, what is and what ain't, and
ontological status refers to one's status as an existing thing, equal
status between two things means one thing doesn't exit more or less than

     The molecule can WISH it could return to the ocean never to be
itself any more, we usually run this out when we run return to the womb

     But a molecule of water that has returned to the ocean, is still
a molecule of water amongst many other molecules of water all wishing
they could return to the ocean and not be themselves any more.

     Notice that a molecule of water has higher ontological status than
the ocean, as the ocean could not exist without the prior existence of
the molecules of water.  The ocean depends for its existence on the
molecule, the molecule of water doesn't depend on the ocean.

     The track is FULL of "we are all ONE, merge, subsume, disappear
forever in the many, let your parts become the parts of others, etc."

     It's all an enticement or appeal to the apathetic and those that
want to die forever and be no more.

     I AM means I AM, whether awake or asleep, whether a molecule in the
sea, or a molecule in the air.  The molecule (thetan) never dies, for
individuality can not be created nor destroyed, as it is CO ETERNAL with
the ONE.

     An infinite number of infinite individualities...

     The MANY is an infinite number of infinite INSTANTIATIONS of the

     And in any case when a body dies, the thetan that was infesting it,
hardly sinks back into the sea never more to be seen, even if the sea is

     Nor does a thetan lose his beingness nor individuality, in fact he
recovers his true operating state prior to messing around with bodies.
Sorry Ethyl, bodies are an error, not a virtue.

     A being might lose about .99 percent of his this life time
identity, most of which was nonsense anyhow, but he remains himself,
knows where he's been, what he has done, and is usually willing to try

     When a being finally goes total native state, all EXPERIENCE is
erased, memory is gone as if it never happened, all lessons are
unlearned, for what does a total knowingness need of lessons, and he
reborns at next manifestation with a CLEAN SLATE.

     And I do mean CLEAN.

     But at the top of that slate it says 'My SLATE', and eternal
recognition of self remains forever along with love for self, as that
self is immutable and permanent.  It is the part of you that never
changes, and is always you whether awake or asleep.

     And yes, Ethyl you will have time enough to love.

     This is 'awareness of self as an immortal being.'

     Think about it, if EVERYTHING about you changed over night, you
wouldn't still be you any more now would you?

     But you could change all kinds of things, and you would still be

     "Spot what never changes about you."
     "Spot what changes about you.

     E/P Self no longer defined by what changes, and recognition of Self
as an immutable part of the AllThatIs.

     This is a direct walk into awareness of self as an immortal being
through direct perception of timeless immutability.

     Waves on an ocean indeed, enough to make any self respecting thetan
sea sick.


Homer Wilson Smith     The Paths of Lovers    Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF        Cross            Internet Access, Ithaca NY    In the Line of Duty

Wed Jun 20 21:38:50 EDT 2007