> Good, very good.  I no longer doubt your pan-determinism.
> You make me look like a pretender.  Very good.

     Well I am at least a good pretender.

     Meatballs are one of my most detested oppterms, even though I was

     But I was a reasonable meatball, I WANTED the dreamball theory to
be true from very early on, and in fact I knew I didn't know which was
true and didn't know how to prove it.  I knew that IF the meatball
theory was true we could never know, and I assumed that IF the dreamball
theory was true there should be a proof of it somewhere, not just an
exteriorization, but something deeper.

     But I couldn't bring myself to just have faith in the dreamball
theory, because I was missing many parts of it, and the world is just
too miserable a place (for me) for my immature dreamball theories to
account for all the pain we are going through.

     Eventually I grew up and the theory matured, and the proof came
along (1973), which doesn't prove the world is a dream, but it does
prove that consciousness is 0D (zero dimensional) and thus has no space
or time to its underlying structure, and thus MUST be eternal in nature.

     Thus we all get to live forever outside of time, as there is no
actual time to die in, but we do get to live for a WHILE in as many
different finite time whiles as we want inside of time.

     How one would then interface a 0D consciousness with a 3D brain
then becomes an interesting problem in physics and philosophy.

     That seriously upped the stakes in the contest between meatball and

     The meatballs that piss me off, are those that resist the dreamball
theory completely, insist they want to die and that's it bud, and do not
take the time to help themselves to the ample evidence that maybe the
dreamball theory is possibly correct.

     It's their own hope they can't stand, but in the end they exceed my
own credibility and willingness to confront, let alone create.  I try,
but I still go into drooling convulsions of hate :)

      Spot NO   meatball.
      Spot SOME meatball.

     I try to slice them and dice them with my sword of sarcasm, but I
find they just dent and dull my sword to no effect whatsoever on

     As Electra said, 'only BT's bash'.

     "I have had time enough for love" cases drive me crazy.

     PTSness results from trying to prove the suppressive wrong.

     PTS means potential trouble source and is the phenomenon of
rollercoastering heavily in life.

     What more suppressive thing can there be than an eternal god
mocking itself up as a mortal meatball?



     So you put your prove it case in session and you run the following
process on him.

     Auditor: "Why do you believe that OT powers do not exist?"

     PC: Prove it!  Move the marble on the table and I will believe you
have OT powers.

     Auditor: Sorry I don't have any OT powers, I will repeat the
auditing question.

     Why do you believe OT powers do not exist?

     PC: Do YOU believe in OT powers?

     Auditor: Sorry, I have no idea one way or the other, I will repeat
the auditing question.

     Why do you believe OT powers do not exist?

     PC: Well that's easy because no one has ever demonstrated that they

     Auditor: OK, thank you I got that.

     (Ok, in the first place the pc doesn't know that, he has asserted the
unassertable.  All he knows is no one has ever demomstrated OT powers TO
HIM.  Such an interpolated generalization would be considered dharma
treason and get him kicked out of any true scientific debate in history.

     That's like saying in 1770 that flying was impossible because no one
had built an airplane yet.  Just because no one can do OT powers, doesn't
mean they do not exist and aren't there for the taking.

     His assertion is also based on the idea that if scientific proof of
such powers existed, they would immediately be rushed to publication in
Nature, and the whole world would know about it by now.

     That's like saying if there were evidence of aliens coming to
attack us, we would have read it in the newspapers by now.

     Or if the CIA found a reliable way to do remote viewing the whole
process would be published in the Pentagon Review.

     He will say, "sure but someone would have leaked it by now."

     Maybe, maybe not, but the point is the absence of demonstration
doesn't mean OT powers have not been or are not available.  Maybe no one
has any OT powers in present time.  Maybe they just have demonstrated
them to HIM.

     Maybe a lot of things, but in any case it just isn't true that the
reason he believes that OT powers don't exist is because 'no one has
ever demonstrated OT powers.'

     That is not why he doesn't believe.

     So like any good auditing process, you continue with the process
and ask the question again until you get the right answer.)

     Auditor: Why do you believe OT powers do not exist?

     PC: Well because they are impossible!

     (The anatomy of an incredibility is a certainty that something is
true and a certainty that something is impossible.  The mind can not
think beyond an incredibility or a threatened incredibility.

     Thus the mere assertion that OT powers exist throws his entire
reality into an incredibility, and stops him cold in his tracks.

     He's gotta know right now!

     His need to know if they exist, assuming they do, override any need
for secrecy or discretion on the part of the people who have those
powers.  And if given the chance he would sacrifice those very same
people if only he could get them to demonstrate a power that was
convincing enough.  His attitude is to hell with the person who had the
power, now I can get on with my life knowing they exist.

     If we could just get the preclear to not know if OT powers are
POSSIBLE or not, then we could get him to not know if they EXISTED or
not, rather than be adamantly firm that they don't.)

     Auditor: Thank you, why do you believe that OT powers do not exist?

     PC: Well you see it is like this.  There is this great big universe
of space and time and matter and energy out there that existed long
before any human beings came along to have OT powers.  From all those
parts flying around in space, planets were made, and seas were formed,
and amino acids came to be, and then DNA, then cells and finally bodies
with brains except for Churchies who skipped the brain stage, etc.

     Eventually consciousness and self awareness formed as a process in
the brain and we finally have human beings.

     Now the problem is that because consciousness is a process in the
brain, consciousness can only do what the brain can do, because
consciousness IS only some part of the brain in action.

     First since the universe existed prior to the existence of brains,
it must have existed prior to the existence of consciousness too, and
thus any claim that consciousness had anything to do with the creation
of the universe, has cause and effect backwards.

     The universe created brains and consciousness, and therefore it
can't be true that consciousness created the universe and brains.

      Unless of course you have a universe with circular time where
something later can, later on, end up causing something earlier.

     Auditor: "Continue..."

     PC: Well, Godel said that General Relativity threw doubts on our
sense of causation, because such universes where time loops back on
itself perfectly, are possible.

     Whatever the common nature of cause would be in such a universe
where time looped back on itself, this same nature of cause would also
have to be true of our universe, because cause is cause, and thus he
said the ideas of linear time and linear cause are in doubt in all

     Godel also said that if Special Relativity is true, that our
concept of time itself is completely wrong.  It is usually considered
that NOW is all the points in space time that actually EXIST right now,
and everything else no longer exists because it is in the past or
doesn't exist yet because it is in the future.

     The problem is that moving observers will report different points
in space and time that are in the set of NOW points.  And Godel said it
is no problem if measurements of time are relative, but it wasn't ok if
EXISTENCE was relative.

     Also I know that the quantum boys believe that nothing exists
except as a wave form of probabilties until something or someone
actually observes it, and thus it might take a conscious observer to
make the universe precipitate into existence in the first place, but
they are confused, even amongst themselves.

     For example, if it takes a conscious observer to precipitate an
actual event into existence, then what conscious observer precipitated
the original universe into existence, before any conscious had evolved?

     Auditor: "Thank you, please continue..."

     PC: So I know there are problems with our concepts of space and
time, but certain things are inexorable, like the conservation of energy
and the speed of light.

     Take telepathy for example.  Where's the energy wave that carries
thoughts from person to person across space time?  Why can't the
scientists measure that energy transfer from brain to brain?

     Telepathy is also supposed to travel infinitely fast, but that
violates the limitations imposed by the speed of light.

     The speed of light is not just the speed of light, it is the speed
of CAUSATION as it moves through the universe.  For example if there is
a war on Earth, those on Alpha Centauri can not possibly know about it
until 4 years later.

     But if someone on earth could relay to his brother on Alpha
Centauri via telepathy when the war on Earth was started, his brother
could know ahead of time that the war was on and invest in the market

     Now I don't care about that, but it becomes infinitely problematic
when data and thus causation can get from A to B faster than the speed
of light, because according to the equations of time, time could be made
to run backwards, thus messing up the linear straightforward motion of

     As for telekinesis, again its a matter of energy.  If you are going
to move the marble on the table that would take a very determinable
amount of ergs of energy that would have to emmanate from your brain
processes, go through your forehead and hit the marble.

     But that level of energy would make your brain explode, and anyhow
there is nothing in the brain that could possibly generate that much
energy, so there is no way telekinesis could work.

     As for exteriorization, the brain can't leave the brain, so there
is no way it could possibly leave the body to see the world remotely.
Further the brain needs a lens to focus the image, if someone were
outside the body, even if he could pick up photons, he would have to
have a lens to focus the image to see what was emitting the photons.

     Where is the lens?

     Some say OT's can see objects without the use of photons, ok, fine
in some comic book.  That's a total violation of causation and
conservation of energy, people could just see and know things without
any physical interaction at all.  The military would love that.

     As for life after death, the whole thing is an oxymoron, once the
brain dies, all its processes die, you can guarantee that through
cremation, so how could consciousness, which is a process in the brain,
continue on?

     As for past life memories, if the consciousness can't survive brain
death, how could it have lived before to have any memories, it just
doesn't make sense.

      Auditor: OK, thanks for all that, I got it.

      Auditor: Your needle is floating, this is end of session.

     So now that the preclear has clearly stated the reasons why he
deosn't believe that OT powers exist, and given his new clarity of
perception on HIS OWN BELIEFS, and some time to think it through, he can
come to see the spiritual prison he has put himself in through his
scientific 'erudition'.

      Yes being meat precludes being OT, but the evidence for
being meat is sketchy at best, ludicrous at worst.