It doesn't matter whether someone is a meatball who believes that
the physical universe is actual and he is made of it, or a dreamball who
believes the physical universe is a dream in his own consciousness.

     However none of scientology, particularly the OT stuff will make
any sense to the meatball because the causations within the PU do not
allow for such powers, past lives etc.

     In trying to understand Hubbard it is critical that everyone
understand that he was a dream ball, claimed to be the reincarnation of
Buddha, so he is working from a world view where consciousness makes
dreams of MEST and survives the death of the dream body.

     It is fine to say that Scners are just a bunch of kooks, but this
misses just how much of kook we all really are, and you must remember
that more than half of the world's population believes the world is a

     So my goal here is not get anyone to exteriorize from the dream and
wake up, but only to get them see what they are up against, so that
proper communication can take place.

     Otherwise you get meatballs trying to argue with dreamballs but
thinking they are meatballs too, and that leads to an incredibility, how
could anyone believe in OT powers etc.

     If meatballism is true, then OT powers do not exist.

     If dreamballism is true, then everone is God in Carnation and OT
powers are a forgone conclusion, including the apparency of their
absence as the whole universe is created via OT power.

     A very powerful theorem exists which the meatballs ignore, EVEN IF

     THEOREM: It is impossible to prove or show conclusive evidence that
you are not dreaming at any instant of time.

     In otherwords you can do anything in a dream you can do awake, and
since all anyone has ever seen of the physical universe is their own
conscious rendition of it, there is in fact no direct evidence of the
existence of the physical universe EXCEPT their rendition of it.

     So, like a sleep dreamer who thinks he is awake until he wakes up,
just so are people sleep dreaming even now, until they wake up at death
or earlier through auditing.  Then they go lucid, meaning they stay in
the dream but retain awareness they are dreaming.

     By saying that YOU are just a human who never created anything, you
are saying that Hubbard was just a human who never created anything.

     That misses the enormity of your own existence and Hubbard's, and
the enormity of what in fact Hubbard tried to create and failed.  If his
intentions were evil, then the world is a world of gods up against an
evil god, not a world of humans up against an evil human.

     As for Scners, most of them have an inner sense that OT powers are
real, cuz they are and they been there done that and bought the body,
but they are still asleep, they too believe in the apparencies of the
phyiscal universe, just like any meatball, and they have not yet
realized they will have to give up that apparency in order to attain
those powers.

     That's like the sleep dreamer who is just aware enough to say "Hey
you know this isn't where I live", but not aware enough to then say "Oh
whaddya know this is a dream!"

     So he gets into a fight with a meatball in the dream who says 'Yes
this is the place you live, there is no other place', "No it isn't, I am
just sure I live somewhere else", "You are nuts!", "I am not!" rather
than realizing he is in a dream and responding to the meatball "YOU ARE
A BT!  What are you?  Who are you?  How many are you?" and going on
about his dream now knowing it is a dream and even remembering some of
what the world looks like when he does wake up.

     But that's just another dream, until he reaches the top which is
static snooze.

     Not asking for agreement, but do you understand Dennis?

Tue Jan 26 20:18:47 EST 2010