In alt.clearing.technology husk  wrote:
> This is an interesting argument, which is new to me.  What I
> understand from what you say is that if Scientology actually had the
> power/skills/technology to create actual OTs their goal of clearing
> the planet would actually be damaged because these OT's would no
> longer want to play the game.  Creating OT's would therefore be
> counter-productive for Scientology and therefore their bridge is
> nothing but a scam.

      No, but it is a crippled bridge.

      Creating a case free being is certainly counterproductive to any
auditor if he depends on people being casey for his income.

      A guy with a floating TA isn't going to come in for more auditing,
and if he stays floating, he won't ever come back.

      He will in fact get on with his basic purposes which probably WON'T
be to audit others.

      That is in part why I believe the Church suppressed the basic
purpose rundown, as people left the church once they found their basic
purpose, and didn't want to be on staff any more.

      Of course high tone help is simply playing games with
each other, co action at spirit of play on the tone scale.

     In the last analysis lower tone help at fix and repair, is an
aberration born of being part of a 'karma-group', those you have hurt
and who have hurt you.  It isn't everyone, and it isn't infinite.

     Once your postulates tying yourself to your karma group are
as-ised, you are free to go, all debts forgiven.  The harms done to you

      Most people in the church are stuck to their karma group and are
either in making amends, propitiation or outright sacrifice.

      Once a person attains Grade I, ability to recognize the source of
problems and make them vanish, I mean REALLY attains it, he no longer
has problems over other's having problems or suffering.

     Their suffering is BEAUTIFUL as part of a greater tapestry of high
appreciation for ludicrous demise.
     At power, Grade V, it becomes even worse, the guy is so clear of
drama, you can't dramatize enough to get him interested in you or your
plight except to admire it.

     If you are burning on a cross with a pail of water at the bottom,
and you beg the guy to help you by throwing the water on the flames, he
will probably drink the water, and toast a marshmellow in the fire.

      When done he will say 'Nice flaming cross dude, perhaps someday you
will teach me how to do that.'

      But his admiration of your condition is enough to start
its unwinding for total acceptance and admiraton of anything
by anyone will being to as-it it for all parties involved.

     Through admiration of ludicrous demise the universe is

     Its only when the universe has everyone worried sick about it,
can it guarantee the persistence it so craves.

      You gotta understand that at some high level pain is beautiful to a
God, it's one of his pretty colors he paints tapestries with.  Pain only
becomes painful when the God falls below recognition of himself as
source of his own tapestry.  He does this on purpose.

      No one will take his beautiful tapestry seriously if he isn't
taking it seriously himself.

      As Hubbard said, 'As long as a being still needs to DO something
about a problem, he isn't clear on that problem'.

      That includes the idea that dealing with the problem directly with
as-isness will cause the problem to vanish on all sides of all fences,
so if the guy is DOING something about the problem, he still has the
problem by his own postulate.

      So we are not talking about apathy about problems here, we are
talking about a scary kind of effectiveness that a God like being can
bring to resolving no longer wanted issues.  Part of that is realizing
that at one time he did want them in general, so he has to change his
mind, and poof they are gone.

      Now humans run on doing, caring, helping and doing, if no one did
anything, the whole world would stop and everyone would starve to death.

      And frankly that is kind of what happens at many levels as people
get spiritually clear, they realize their presence in a body is itself a
selfish overt act, and although they don't want to just leave the body
alone as it won't do well without a thetan in this society and some
other thetan will take it over who will treat it worse, neither do they
want to continue in body games.

      Body games of caring about people involve postulates that others
need your help.  That solidifies their need for help, you see?

      So at some point the theta clear realizes that his considering that
other's need his help makes things worse for others, so he decides just
to leave the postulate pool instead.

      That's one less person posulating that the rest of us are bad off
and need help, so everyone get's spontaneously better to just that

      Thus Hubbard wanted to keep skimming off the top 1 percent of OT
people on this planet, because their postulates were the most dangerous,
and as they left, the world got better.  Then he wanted to work on the
next 1 percent until they left.  That way everyone could bubble up to a
better position in life without the postulate weight of near gods
pushing them down by caring, and worrying and trying to help the poor
dear souls.

      But then the more clear someone gets, the more they aren't around
any more.

      Thus the Church needs to fall short of actually clearing anyone in
order to keep them around.

      They know this, I know this, they know I know this, I know they
know I know this, but no one is talking about it.

      It is one of those 'unthinkable thoughts', not quite patriotic you

      Remember Gods as Humans *HATE* Gods as Gods.

> Does Scientology actually advertise that that control is possible?  To
> be able to control which body your thetan enters, and therefore pick
> your birth parents?

      This is hard to answer, because it very much depends on *which*
scientology you are talking about.

      It is well stated in many places that a Cleared Theta Clear, no
longer has a need for a body and will not pick up another body in his
next life time at all.

      It is also well stated in various places that a non clear is
compulsively addicted to bodies as they can't stand the exterior state,
and will fight to the death to take over a body, sometimes winning,
sometimes losing to another thetan, sometimes killing the body.

      Lower than that, the being can't take on a body any more, and may
become involved with body clusters or BT's.

      Somewhere in between it is generally accepted that all beings have
translife time goals, and that once these are rehabilitated they will
pursue those goals again, using bodies or not as the case may be.

      Most people don't want to come back, they are terrified of life on
Earth.  They are very low toned.

      A better tone is being terrified you can't come back and your trans
life goals will go awasting.

      An even better tone is you will be able to stay clear of bodies
until you find a family you truly want to be part of, and who is aware
of you in some sense before you take over the body, and who will help
you attain those trans life goals.

      At this level a thetan will pick a set of people, and with
projection of intention get them to find each other, fall in love, marry
and have sex and bear the child the thetan wants to take over.  Thetans
can plan and orchestrate the whole thing.  These famlies can turn out to
be really loving families and highly successful, because the parents had
'divine' help finding each other, namely the help of their own child.

      That's why cupid is often pictured as a little naked baby.

      Higher tone, the being probably says oh screw it, I can keep me and
my friends interested in existence without having bodies of our own.
They become managers of humanity through a projection of intention
process, guiding others towards their goals or not from a higher
viewpoint of what is going on and why.

      But at that point, they are optimizing games, and not helping
people win them, the God aspect is operating and not the human aspect,
which comes from 'I need a body, and I need help from other bodies, and
you better help me and I better help you or else...  etc.'


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Wed Jan 14 03:06:02 EST 2015
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Learning implies Learning with Certainty or Learning without Certainty.
Learning across a Distance implies Learning by Being an Effect.
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Therefore, Learning with Certainty implies Learning, but
not by Being an Effect, and not across a Distance.

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