06/15/10 Tuesday 6:15pm EST
Chuck Beatty said:

> thankyou for all your answers.
> From what you've said, I can extrapolate that the whole administrative
> running of a spiritual movement, such as Scientology, I presume you
> don't think much of the whole shebang of what Hubbard, for instance,
> wrote in the green volumes.

     Like everything, some of it is brilliant, some of it is
suppressive.  Doesn't take much poison to kill someone.

     "Competition is a trick of the weak to fetter the strong." - LRH

     Competition is all that keeps quality in the product for the
consumer, so success at wiping out competition is guaranteed bad for the

     I am a techie, I have no idea how a huge organization should be
run.  Scn is very much like the military or a commie/fascism.

     No one votes on anything.

     Absolute dictatorial vertical control from top on down.

     Its a priest hood not a democracy.

     Hubbard said democracies are tone 4.0 (enthusiasm), and fascism is tone
1.5 (anger), and commies are tone 1.1 (covert hostility).

     What tone is the Church and the people in it?


> In your opinion, do you think that efforts of any spiritual group,
> even Theosophy for instance, are valid efforts to try to organize and
> carry out?

     The issue is production.  It is one thing to have a bible that says
how to live life, it is quite another to provide a production/assembly
line to produce a product on another human being.

     Just on the training side, take training to fly an airplane, it
takes a good organization to do that, from ground crews, to pilots to
secretaries to treasurers, the full corporate org board in other words.

     If you got stock holders, then all that has to be in place, they
vote on the Board, who elect the mangers, who hire the personell, who do
the work on the customers who pay for it.

> And have you any general opinions about "organized" religion in any
> form?

     To the degree that religion is merely a belief or faith system
(nonsense in other words), the organization is basically for the control
of the public, the enforcement of keeping the faith and obedience to the
party line etc.  Money flows from the public to the priests to keep them
alive.  There is no return flow of any kind except in the fancy of the
eye of the beholder.

     To the degree that a religion is an *APPLIED* philosophy, meaning
not only a way to run one's own life, but an extended team effort to
change the state of a being from human to something higher, then it has
to be organized along standard corp lines depending upon its capital
structure, just like any enterprise including medicine and psychiatry.

     Take any sports or dance camp, the purpose is to go there to get
trained.  That's a team effort, and teams beyond two, like one on one
tutoring, are a corp enterprise and need everything that comes with
being a viable corporation.

     In fact if you took a real hot shot MBA, someone who graduated from
a school of business management and who had succesfully run a billion
dollar enterprise as CEO for years, and set him loose on the Church to
fix what was broke, adding in all the usual legal oversight of HR and
OSHA etc, you would probably end up with a very powerful and functional
corporation that could actually produce what it promised that ended up
bigger than IBM and Microsoft combined.
     Of course any legal anything with the Church would open up a can of
worms in that the end product of the Chuch is a major weapon of war, but
we would leave that problem until later.

     The MBA would still be able to do a lot if allowed to molt Church
policy in a survival manner, even if the final product was super secret.
Lots of super secret corp's in the world that do just fine.

     The problem is it has to remain super secret from the GOVERNMENT,
as clearing is fundamentally subversive to other's control.

>     When I asked you how many people are like yourself, that is sort of
>the Scientology's "3rd dynamic" concept, and it is sort of the real
>world's "organized" religions concept/reality.
>  Do you think organized spiritual teaching centers and spiritual 
>practice centers (churches, or organizations), are valid endeavors?   
     Yes, if they have a highly professional valuable final product.

     There are psychologists who work alone, one client at a time.

     But even they need secretaries, and if they are training people
under them, they need a whole slew more.  If they have a whole clinic
with multiple doctors, there has to be scheduling, conflict resolution,
results, cramming etc.

     This is embodied in the awareness characteristic chart:

     Prediction, Activity, Production, Result, Correction, Ability.

     In the present church, there is lots of activity, but production is
low, results are terrible, correction is impossible, and final ability
(valuable final product) is non existent.

     Because the church can't produce, somewhere in there between
prediction, and ability, the preclear ends up in the RPF for failing as
a preclear, or expelled as suppressive.

     *THAT* then becomes the valuable final product of the Church,
taking someone who wanted to learn how to fly, and turning him into a
'wanted criminal'.  Nice production line.

     Take a small town animal vet clinic.  Its always a whole group of
people from call takers, to technicians, to full blown doctors working
as a team.  And yes there is a standard corporate structure behind all
of them.

     Look you are either going to be a sole proprietorship, a
partnership or a corporation in any making a living activity.

     Making money merely means making a living.

     If you make a living printing the Bible, you need a corp behind you
to make it work, corporate budgeting, what to buy, corporate structure,
debt or equity, and working capital, collect on your accounts
receivables and pay your bills, and not get buried under demands for
refunds for overt products.

     If you make a living counseling people one on one to enhance and
apply their understanding of the Bible, then maybe you get away with a
sole proprietorship, but if you need outside investment in facilities,
then back to being a partnership or corporation you go.

     Imagine the church going public and getting real investment in its

     It doesn't matter what a clear *BELIEVES*, can he produce an
ethical straight line without wavering.  That's all corporate america
cares about.

     No matter how you cut it, if you are MAKING A LIVING HELPING OTHERS
AS A PROFESSIONAL in any field whatsoever, there is a tax return at the
end of the year, and there are policies that must be written and laws
complied with.  It is the nature of life.

>I probably am just using you to ask myself questions about these 
>matters, which I just need to read more about.    Well thanks for your
>time Homer.    Chuck

    Any time, you can call me if you really want to chew the rag
at 607 227 5465.  I will however record the call and post it to the
net :)


Homer Wilson Smith     The Paths of Lovers    Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF        Cross            Internet Access, Ithaca NY
homer@lightlink.com    In the Line of Duty    http://www.lightlink.com
Tue Jun 15 18:32:34 EDT 2010