Originally posted to ADORE-L which no longer exits.

     This guy eventually wrote me many years later, he had become a born
again Christian.

     This posting is old, it dates back to 1989.  One indication is a
lack of distinction between eternality outside of time, and immortality
inside of time.

     Also the auditing processes are not in cannonical format.

      Today I would run simply:

     Spot NO fear of future.  Spot SOME fear of future.

     With attention to future mortalities, fragile immortalities,
immortalities and eternalities.

     Fragile immortalities were a time on the track when a being had an
immortal body but it was fragile and could be killed by force.  The game
was how long you could live before you or someone else fucked up and
clobbered the body beyond repair.  People lived thousands of years
before losing it.  Wars were engaged in, inspite of the risk.  In many
cases life became unworthy of living, and suicide became rampant.

     Suicide was declared illegal and the punishment was life in prison,
where you COULDN'T kill yourself if you wanted to.

     'Life' sentences were particuarly brutal and are echoed today in
our criminal policies that prevent a criminal from killing himself.  You
can't punish him further if he is dead.  The desire to cause pain to
someone as revenge rather than just dispense with their lives as a
practicality are also echoed today in false religious beliefs about hell
forever.  If God doesn't like a sinner, He should just terminate their
existence rather than make the sinner suffer forever, begging to die but
not being able to.  The cause of much mental illness is the belief in a
mentally ill God.

     The legal idea was that the proper penalty for causing the death of
someone, who otherwise COULD HAVE lived forever, was not death in
exchange, but being caused to SUFFER alive forever, as that was the
result on the loved one's left behind of the one who was killed.  They
get to continue living without the murdered one, and thus they are
suffering forever and thus they demanded that the culprit do so also.

     This is all going to come up again in the next 100 years on Earth
as fragile, but otherwise immortal bodies, are genetically produced on a
wide scale.  The aging and normal biological death of bodies is a silly
genetic error that they already know how to fix, they just haven't
gotten around to doing it yet.

     Biological death was chosen by simple Darwian selection, those that
lived the longest were not the ones who lived and procreated the best.
For one, overpopulation is death to a fragile immortal body, and total
hell to a truely non fragile immortal body.  Thus biological immortality
is not biologically desirable.

     Man however will certainly change all that within the next 100
years, by unselecting for biologically mortal bodies, as he figures out
the solution to the aging problem, and the mess that will result on
Earth from that will exceed anything written in the books of man.

      I would purchase the movie rights now.


JMC wrote:
>I have been one of the people that has continued to ask for descriptions
>of some religious experiences here.  The reason I'm doing this, personally,
>is that I would like to be able to understand where Homer is coming from.
>I don't plan on criticizing anyone over this.  How can you find any
>criticism in an account of what a person was experiencing?  You can
>criticize the interpretations of the experience, but it's the experience
>itself, not the interpretation, that I'm looking for from Homer.

     One reason is that I don't want to set myself up for criticisms of
the interpretation of the experience.  Some would say it is the
experience that is important, others would say it is the interpretation
of the experience.  I like to keep them separate so that no one can say
I am an idiot for taking interpretation A from experience B.  People
already think I am an idiot, why give them fuel to throw on the fire?
It is THEIR immortality they are laughing at.  Fuck em.  You know what I

     Another reason is that experiences are very ephemeral and often
beyond words.  Thus trying to describe an experience ALWAYS gets the
other person to come up with a false conception of what you are talking
about, which they then attack you for drawing interpretations from.
Especially people who have had no 'experiences.' Trying to describe one
to such a person is a no win situation and just makes matters worse.  On
the other hand people who HAVE had experiences of something or other CAN
glean some measure of understanding from what you might describe, but
they have already experienced it, so why discuss it?  Except of course
to discuss the ramifications which gets into interpretations.

     Another reason that I don't like getting into describing
experiences, besides the fact that it is literally telling the enemy
exactly what your armaments are, is that people get into a one upmanship
about who has experienced what, and some get to feeling very depressed
because 'THEY'VE never experienced THAT.'

     One of the most basic experiences that people are looking for is
RECOGNITION.  Recognition of themselves, their choices, and the people
they have known and loved down the ages.  Most people slough off the
moment of recognition as they know there is nothing to really recognize.
Of course they are wrong, there are millions and millions of years and
people and things and places to recognize, and it is a great joy when
you finally meet someone you REMEMBER, even if only in a dream.

     It is very much like finding a true friend you did not know you had
forgotten.  Then you begin to ask 'How long has this been going on?' It
is enough to make chills crawl up and down your spine.

     Of course others walk around recognizing every dog cat and
cockcroach they see, but they are just giving the whole subject a bad

     It is true that many insane people think they are Napolean.  But
what about all the insane people who think they are bodies and live just

     Out there somewhere IS Napolean, maybe not quite sure he should say
anything about it because no one would believe him.

     The next experience that most are looking for are clear memories of
past places that are no longer.  Other planets, other times, even home
universe.  Unfortunately our memories are so chock full of OTHERS
memories that we often take any clear image that comes along and call it
ours.  Well it may belong to someone, but not necessarily to YOU.  When
you find your own memory in the junk heap of images, you will find some
serenity of self you have not known for trillenia.

     Serenity of Being, Eternal Omni Sovereignty, these are absolute
states at the very highest reaches of ability that we can again contact
in this life.  People CLAIM to contact these states, but check out their
contact with reality and their ability to deal with it.  Gods do not
have any problems.  Bums merely claim they have no problems.  But they
have no accomplishments either.

     A person who has really made it will be surrounded by

>We already know his conclusions, but what we don't know is why he
>feels that way.

     I feel this way because the conclusions WORK.

     They start off as a theory, you try them out, you see they work,
and they become conclusions.

     The way in is the way out.  Have a headache?  Make MORE.  Don't
have a headache?  Make one.  If you had been taught these principles
from childhood you would be able to make headaches come and go with
ease.  If you become bent on trying to STOP a headache that 'something
else' created, you will get stuck with the headache.  If you learn to
START headaches, then you can out start anything else that might be
trying to make a headache for you, and you will not get stuck with them
unless you want to.

     Of course if everyone could make headaches come and go and KNEW
that everyone could do this, you could never USE a headache to get out
of school.  Or allergies, or colds, or flu or cancer.

     Everyone is terrified of cancer, but NO ONE is practicing MAKING a
cancer in their bodies.  They are afraid they might get stuck with it.
But if you can MAKE it you can UNMAKE it.  So people devote themselves
to NOT MAKING cancers and they die of them routinely.

     Earth is a joke.  A sick joke perhaps, but a Majestic sick joke
that plays on the God-child's refusal to operate what he fears the most.
If you make a big ugly looking spider and then run away from it, IT WILL
come after you.  You SAID so in the running away from it, don't you see?

     Of course if you just sit there in apathy and DON'T run away from
it, it will eat you anyhow.  You gotta MAKE it.  And chose to run away
from it and have it come after you.  THEN it will vanish.  It is a
matter of whether you OWN it while you are doing it, or you chose to
believe your mockups for real.  In which case you will get eaten every
time.  YOU SAID SO.

>Certainly, his philosophies are not shared by
>the majority of the people,

     Not so.  Maybe in AMERICA the majority of the people are meatballs
but America is a decadent piece of pollution on the waters of the Earth.
Its advancement in the high tech area is matched only by the depth of
sleep that its zombie citizens are walking around in.

     Hell America is run by a sub class of humans who believe that GOD
died for your sins.  If this is not the pit of philosophical putritude,
I do not know what is.

     ((It is possible that some people need to have God pay their ticket
for them, but others don't.  So its not true that only Christians will
be saved, but it might be true that only Christians needed to have God
pay their ticket for them.

     "There is peace in the thought that one day *ALL* men will attained
the enlightened state." - Sufi))

     Other countries are not much better, because all of EARTH is an
insane asylum for the spiritually retarded that could not or would not
get along with others out in the real universe.  We have all had our
memories EXECUTED out of us, (its still there though) and we have been
dumped here in the hope that we would never have to be dealt with again.
Of course the civilizations that dumped us here were not the height of
wonder themselves.  But at least they knew about immortality.

>and so it goes without saying that
>he should explain WHY he feels that way if he wants to be understood
>by us mundane folks.

     It is not my goal to be understood by mundane folks.  It is my goal
to share understanding with others who have it.  Those who don't, or who
need PROOF before they will LOOK are invited to get lost.  I owe them

     Those with no evidence or 'experiences' of their own are shallower
than a dry river bed and deserve little consideration, as it is not by
innocent error that they are this way.

     They are indeed very fortunate to have someone daring enough to
even open their mouth on this subject right or wrong.

     In fact those who are green apprehentices to this subject matter
should keep their mouths shut until they gain some understanding they
can share with others.

     At worst they should treat those they question with some respect.
It starts with knowing that there is something to know, that you do not
know it, and that the one you are questioning might know it.  It does
not start with trying to denounce or debunk the person in question.
THAT is for the SKEPTICS-L list and such people who behave in this
manner will be treated with total contempt on this list.

     Skeptics are in a kind of hell.  They DOUBT they CHOSE, and they
DOUBT they CHOSE to DOUBT they CHOSE.  Who now owes them a free ride
out?  If they LISTEN and LOOK and APPLY they might be able to take
advantage of the fact that they are allowed to communicate with those
who have already done some of the dangerous work and have attained some
measure of ability.  Those who have no ability in these matters are not
OWED by those that do.

     Since most ability comes from within yourself anyway, screaming and
yelling about others not sharing their secrets with you is only partly
valid.  If you have to do it alone, you have to do it alone.  To say 'I
will not believe, until you prove it to me, that there is something to
believe' is to continue the joke which is on YOU.  YOU PROVE IT TO

      Then I can heckle you.  What a joy that will be.  I can't wait.

>But then again, a religious experience has got to be the Ultimate
>Personal Thing, so I can understand why he might be hesitant to
>reveal anything.  This is all well and good.

     Yes.  The personal thing about it is the PAIN.  The joke we have
played on ourselves is much like nailing ourselves to a cross in public
view for all to see.  Once we did that to ourselves, we may even have
nailed a few of our friends to something too.

     Disentangling the blame shame and regret takes a bit of nerve and
is best done in private or with a trained person, one who has attained a
release state themselves.  (No I am not there.  Yet.) They will not
laugh at you during your worst moments, and they will not be afraid if
you really do get back the ability to exteriorize and generate a few
million electron volts.

     A spirit out of a body and free from his own constraints measures
his energy output in kiloton-lightyears per microsecond.  That is really
a unit of momentum, mass times velocity, but since a spirit does not
have to go through the acceleration phase to get something moving, it is
essentially a unit of energy, or 'kick in the face'.

     Imagine getting hit with a kiloton lightyear per microsecond of
mass and velocity?  You don't fool around with such spirits, and you
don't laugh at them and you don't ask them to fucking PROVE IT.

     'He who speaks, knows not' really applies to the hecklers in the
crowd who have no idea WHAT THEY ARE HECKLING.  Especially when their
target is one of the few that DO speak and happen to know where from
they speak.

     Mostly those who know, just simply choose to not speak lest they
and their friends get heckled out of existence.

>BUT, until he describes WHY he feels the way he does, I for one will find
>it hard to place any more credibility in his statements than any other
>non-obvious statements made by the average lunatic.

     The implication here is that you will quickly change your mind as
soon as I cough up the required data.  This is false.  YOU may think it
will help.  I KNOW it won't.

     Only one thing will convince that you the way in is the way out.
DO it and HAVE IT WORK.  Until then you are out of luck.

      By the way I HAVE done it and it DOES WORK.  But there is a LOT to
do it TO.  Get it?  You wont go free in a day.  Unless of course you do,
in which case please let me be the first to know.  I am tired of all
this long slow work.

>I can say "we all have tiny brown rabbits living inside our heads"
>all I want, but until I submit my reason for feeling that way, my
>ideas are not going to be taken with too much respect.

     Your reason for feeling that way is you have SEEN the rabbits, no?
You have also seen that you have chosen to NOT SEE the rabbits, and that
the only way to SEE them again is to practice NOT SEEING them until you
perfectly duplicate what you did to shut them out at which moment you
will see them again.

     Of course if others do NOT have rabbits in their heads, this will
not work.  How will you ever know the difference?  Good point.  Well USE
the method and if you end up seeing the rabbits, they were there all
along.  If you don't, maybe they weren't.

     But what if you don't use the method right, so you don't end up
seeing the rabbits?  How will you know if you did the method right and
the rabbits were not there, or if you did NOT do the method right so the
rabbits are still just not SEEN.

     Ah well, spirits have been scratching their balls for millions of
years over that one.  But look we are talking about your IMMORTALITY.
Not your rabbits.  OF COURSE you are Immortal.  It is up to you to keep
applying the method until you see the fact for yourself.  Of course its
no good cheating and turning to BELIEF or some other such nonsense.  You
gotta keep doing it until you SEE for SURE how old you really are.

     Eternity is a long time.  It takes a tad of confront to look upon
it.  Sort of like looking out into endless open space.  But in any case
it is the CHOICE you need to see.  Not just a bunch of time.  You can
look at eternity all you want and not get better.  You have to see YOUR
HAND in your involvement with space and time in order to regain your
full self determinism over it.  Until then you are lost forever in the
sea of space and time and OTHER DETERMINISM.

>So, Homer, unless you loosen up a little bit and share some of
>your data, I don't understand how you can expect NOT to have a
>constant stream of attacks from the meat-ball skeptics.

      You are right I should grow up and expect the attacks.

      But if for one moment those people saw how silly they looked they
would clam it up immediately and start applying the data rather than
screaming for proof.

      For example a good thing to run on yourself or a friend is,

      'Look around here and spot some evidence that you are not
       responsible for your condition.'

      'Look around here and spot some evidence that you ARE
       responsible for your condition.'

     Dont try to white wash it by saying, well I am really responsible
for my condition because I did so and so.  Did you chose EARTH?  Did you
chose AMERICA?  Did you put the stars in the sky?  Do you make it rain?
How about the color of your skin, the number of cells in your body, the
mechanisms of biology.  Truly our responsibility is apprently very very
low if you compare it to all that exists.

      In fact one good look at just how unresponsible we really feel
about things is one good look right into the mind of God, YOU.
Because that is what you did to your self.  You made something very
big, and you jumped in.  And boy did you jump in.

>The fact that all your experiences remain unknown adds to the
>carnival con-artist flavor of your statements.  Sure, they may be
>true, but to those of us who don't yet agree with you, you sound
>very much like a magician in a circus.  We always see the end
>result, but never get to know how or why you arrived there.

      Yeah its hard.  Most of my 'experiences' are too ineffable to put
into words in a way that I know you would get it.

     But almost all of them came from looking at the possibility that I
had hidden my responsibility from myself for a reason.  THAT causes
spiritual visions to occurr no end.  So it is not like the visions came
to me for no reason and I made some conclusions.  I ALREADY HAD a
THEORY, namely I chose to forget choosing to forget, and in thinking
about that theory and working it out in every detail of my life, the
visions have come fast and furious.

     Sometimes more furious than fast.  So watch it.

>"Because" is not an answer that sits well.  If that's the way
>you want to run things, so be it, but don't complain when you have
>to defend that line of argument against the skeptics!

     The skeptics should show some understanding and stop bugging me
about it.

     No one is expecting them to accept things on faith or to believe
something just because it is desirable or I said it.  In fact one
demands that they NOT do this because THAT is just what they have been
doing for the past years of their lives when they bought the story of
the physical universe being real and not just one hell of a projection.

     Skeptics are such hypocrits.  I have no respect for them at all.
They demand proof that consciousness is real, but they believe to their
last breath they are made of matter that they have never seen and in
fact can not see.  They are dreamers who think their dream is real just
and only because it hit them so hard in the face, and in fact this kind
of skeptic is the worst kind of 'true believer' there is.  They believe
in matter energy space and time but consciousness which they can SEE is
unimportant or just a function of the material brain.  What idiocy.

      From ADORE,

      Mortals bow and pray to the God of

      TIME, STONE and Dust in the Wind.

>You might ask why I haven't shared any of my own religious experiences...
>The answer is that I haven't had any.  I'm searching, and I promise
>everyone that this list will be the first to know about them when they
>occur!  :)

     You are bound to have them.

     Ask yourself,

     Are you willing to come back and do 1st grade again in your next

     Are you willing to be a girl or a boy in your next life?

     Have you EVER died a natural, peceful death?

     What were YOU doing during World War II or Korea?

     If you are a Jew, have you ever been a Christian?

     If you are a Christian, have you ever been a Jew?

     Have you ever been a black or a slave?

     Did you die in the Civil War?

     Whose side were you on?

     Does it piss you off that you forget all your skills from life time
to life time?

     Is it REASONABLE to expect people to be able to survive well on
this planet if they forget all they know every week?  Every month?
Every year?  Every 20 years?  Every life time?  Every Universe?

     Who ever said you HAD to live only on this lifetime's learning

     Do you FEEL anything on the subject of living once and dying?

     Are you afraid of anger?

     Are you mad at fear?

     What FEELING do you expect to have during your 'experiences'?

     Have you ever felt MONSTER VIBRATIONS?

     Are you willing to meet a Divinity?

     Are you willing to meet a Devil?

     Does it surprise you that no one on Earth thinks twice about being


     You WILL have the experiences you seek if you keep asking
questions, and keep questioning answers.


Homer Wilson Smith     The Paths of Lovers    Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF        Cross            Internet Access, Ithaca NY
homer@lightlink.com    In the Line of Duty    http://www.lightlink.com
Sat Aug 27 18:35:56 EDT 2011