The below posting is forceful but not entirely clear.

      There is only one set of communication lines, but they are used for
two different purposes.

      The first is the body politic use of designing the markets, which
includes political discussion and voting etc.

      The second is the operation of the markets as designed, fair trade
of products produced.

      Neither politics or markets exist without communication lines to
operate over.

      But both use the same communication lines.

      The political use requires absolute encryption, anonymity,
unmoderatability, and untrackability, otherwise the various political
groups will try to wipe each other out.

      Thus any market use of the same communication lines MUST fall
within the constraints set by the existence of encryption, anonymity,
unmoderatability and untrackability.

      Without the above rule in place, market forces will ALWAYS lead
inevitable to a police state, where every communication is trackable,
moderatable, non anonymous, and not encrypted.  Those with the power
that WE gave them to protect us in the markets will use that power to
enslave us to their own ends.  There is no other possible result.

      Encryption allows people to talk to who they want and not others.

      Anonymity allows people to talk to everyone without being harrassed
out of existence or silenced by opposing groups.

      Encryption is the freedom to PRIVATE congregation.

      Anonymity is the freedom to safe PUBLIC congregation.

      Homer wrote:
> Hash: SHA1
> Ralph Hilton ( wrote:
>> I can't agree. There are times when people spend a lot of their time
>> creating something useful to others. Surely they deserve an exchange. I
>     Deserve?  Deserve is a sarcasm.
>     The world is a free market, people don't deserve anything, they get
> what they can take, and they get what they can negotiate for.  Once you
> have negotiated a duty/right pair, and you deliver, then you deserve
> your return etc.
>>     spent a long time writing the software for the C-meter and
>> anyone who wants it pays for it.  Is that fair or should people be
>> allowed to rip it off for free?
>     Fair?  You are free to keep your work to yourself.  It is admitedly
> problematic to any creator when they create something easily duplicated
> by another and given away by them for free.  Anything even resembling
> information these days comes under this heading as the world is moving
> towards instantaneous duplication and transmission of information
> approaching 'for free'.
>     This is why I have said that information owners are already extinct
> but don't know it.
>     People however do not 'deserve' a living just because they breath,
> and people do not 'deserve' to have their work 'protected' just because
> they created it.  In fact people don't 'deserve' anything unless they
> have negotiated for it with others.
>     People have no in born or God given duties or rights to anything
> and those that preach we do should be nailed to a cross quickly for THEY
> will be the ones to bring on the super controlled police state, that
> will nail *EVERYONE* to a cross and charge you for the bill.
>     Basically copyright is a control effort, quite natural in the face
> of the artist wishing to control the ownership and distribution of their
> work.  Well they can negotiate for those rights, and probably they can
> even talk others into allowing a certain amount of police force to be
> created in order to provide that enforcement.  But it is none the less a
> control operation specifically designed to NOT allow anyone to
> communicate freely with anyone on any subject.
>     Now I as an artist may be willing to tolerate some police control
> created by others to protect their works, in return for being able to
> use that same police control over others to protect my works.
>     That way your C-meter software is protected, and my "Mathematics
> for Lovers" video is protected.
>     Notice this is a *NEGOTIATED* thing, *WE* agree with *EACH OTHER*
> to suffer each others surveillence, control and punishment.
>     Such policement is not a God given right, we all AGREE to be bound
> ourselves by rules that protect others if we can see how they protect us
> too.  Its a sensitive give and take, all the more so because it involves
> limitation on communication and putting *FORCE* into the hands of a
> central elite to enforce those rules.
>     But Corruption, Temptation and Seduction attacks any central elite
> with too much power, so ultimately the people must retain more power
> over their government, than the government retains over them.
>     Only those who are very weak, incompetent and afraid want an
> overruling government that can control and monitor and punish everyone.
> Eventually the government begins to benefit from this power and the
> people merely become its slaves.
>     There is something worse than drugs, child pornography and rampant
> copyright violations, and that is a police state.
>     A police state is where every action, every thought, evey
> communication is traceable, moderateable and punishable.
>     If the world were ruled by the artist elite, would the world be a
> better place?
>     Well the copyright holders wish to have the absolute rule of law,
> wish a policeman in every room, wish every communication to the
> traceable, moderateable and punishable.
>     This is not a free society.
>     Everyone wishses that their ownership of things be protected from
> those that would take it by force, so we give just enough force to the
> government to enforce justice for the rest of us, so we don't have to
> enforce justice ourselves and have rampant mob rule.
>     Justice is basically being free to engage in fair trade, and not
> being forced to engage in a trade we don't wish to trade in.  It is the
> freedom to choose who we communicate with (trade with).
>     The problem comes in when A wants to communicate with B and C, but
> doesn't want B or C to communicate with either D, E, or F.
>     The problem is when everyone can take everything from anyone, then
> the police state needs to grow to omnipresent infinity in order to
> control the theft.  At that point in society it is better to do away
> with the police force and admit that enforceable ownership is no longer
> feasible for that particular commodity.  If the artists wants to 'own'
> his work, he needs to keep it to himself.  Or live on shareware fees
> etc.
>     Technological solutions to the copyright problem will only lead to
> closed proprietary formats for data, built in identification on all
> machines, and super monopolistic control entities to manage it all like
> Microsoft.  Good for the artist perhaps but *SUICIDE* for the body
> politic of freedom.
>     Remember always the world is a poltical world first and an artistic
> world second.  Our *FREEDOM* of thought, philosophy, religion, belief
> etc is always more important than the MARKET.
>     When the needs of the artist or any marketeer conflicts with the
> needs of the politic, then the artist or other marketeer must *ALWAYS*
> lose, anything less is a sin against mankind.
>     One can validly ask "But what's the point of having a society if
> you can't market?" It's a good question, and best answered by
> experienceing what it is like when the market rules and there is no
> political freedom left any more.
>     CREATION is primary, *EXCHANGE* is secondary.
>     The body politic first, the market second.
>     The world is full of scam artists trying to reverse that order of
> importance.
>     The point is that SOME marketing protections demand an absolute
> police state, wiping out drugs, guns, child porn, vice of any kind, etc,
> and copyright theft is one of them.  Anything where it is easier to
> commit the crime than it is to track it and prevent it falls into this
> criteria.
>     There are quite a number of people who would LOVE to have a total
> police state and make everyone accountable for everything, but no one
> benefits from this but the criminals who would bubble up into positions
> of authority in the police state.
>     "When lawmakers outlaw criminals, criminals become lawmakers."
>     Only the stupid and evil will ignore that one, and the evil know it
> is true and will use it to their benefit.
>     It is time for artists to grow up and to recognize that a police
> state backed copyright law is hideous beyond redemption, that copyright
> was invented by *PUBLISHERS* to protect themselves and the King, and to
> maintain the politically correct thought of the times, and the artists
> that fall for how it benefits them are just too stupid and dangerous to
> consider human.
>     The world would be a far better place if there were no copyright at
> all.
>     Yes some blood suckers would have a hard time making a living, but
> too bad, life's rough, people don't deserve to live simply by virtue of
> being alive.
>     Just say NO!  to *ANYONE* who tries to negotiate a totally
> trackable, moderateable and punishable communication line for all of
> society.  There are more important things in life than ending child
> porn, protecting artists, or dealing with terrorists.
>     Only the fearful would disagree.
>     Homer
> - --
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Homer Wilson Smith   Clean Air, Clear Water,  Art Matrix - Lightlink
> (607) 277-0959       A Green Earth and Peace. Internet Access, Ithaca NY
>  Is that too much to ask?
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> Sun Jan  6 03:06:03 EST 2013 
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Homer Wilson Smith   Clean Air, Clear Water,    Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959       A Green Earth, and Peace,  Internet, Ithaca NY  Is that too much to ask?

Homer Wilson Smith   Clean Air, Clear Water,    Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959       A Green Earth, and Peace,  Internet, Ithaca NY  Is that too much to ask?
Fri Jan 11 08:57:23 EST 2013