Nick ( wrote:
>So basically what your saying is, if I ever see you stranded on the side of
>the road cause your battery died.  I should just keep going rather than
>offer you my charity?

     Well one presumes you are your way to do something of importance in
the world, perhaps helping me fits into that need perhaps not.  If you
are racing to a fire to save lives, then by all means pass me by.

     The point is not to squander one's help, help is investment,
investing in first in line beggars is not a good investment policy.

     I suggest you re read what I wrote without a need to make it wrong,
you might actually understand it.

>If you die (get mugged, ran over, etc..) on the way
>to the gas station 20 miles away, it's just survival of the fittest, think
>nothing of it.  Well, I'd rather give you a hand and help you get on your
>way (Wouldn't expect anything in return, neither).

     If you give without expecting anything in return then one day you
will have nothing left.
     Life is investment, sow and reap cycles, you can plant stones in
the ground all day long, but you get nothing in return, better to plant
     You OWE it to others who have helped you to make sure that your
investment cycles produce a positive return, and certainly not a
negative return.
     Those that squander their energy alotment, end up with nothing, and
they die or become a weight around other's production, and those that
helped them wasted their life energy in a negative return proposition.

     Although we feel it is nice to give freely without asking for
anything in return, if your highway were filled with broken down cars
all asking for a hand, you would quickly get exhausted along with your
resources and you would start charging for your time, just so that you
COULD help and continue to help.

     We all only have a small finite amount of time to give out for
free, and even then if we find that the people we give our free time to
waste it, or worse use it to bad ends, we will become wary of who we
give free time to.  We start to vet and do triage, and look to the
quality of the person we are helping no matter their need.

     Need does not bestow right.

     Sure sometimes still we might lend a helping hand to a bad guy,
hoping maybe he might learn a lesson, but if he is going to kill us as
soon as he is on his feet or rip us off for more, it would be better to
not help him, but find someone else in need.

>If we go under the assumption that we are all from one being (Static, Ain
>Sof, whatever) than it's only logical that everytime we give help, we are
>also helping ourselves.

     No, if you have a lot of money and give it all to the poor, they
will squander it and then we will all be poor.  'Help' is more than just
giving away afluence to first in line beggars/squanderers, help is
*INVESTMENT*, it is helping others sow and reap a positive return so
that they too can become of positive worth to the cosmic GNP.

     You must not only expect a return you must demand it and make sure
you get it.  It doesn't have to be short term return, it can be long
term return, it can take a million years to come back to you, it can
merely be that civilization became better because the person you helped
did something of positive net return after you helped him.

     But if you just give away your to much of your affluence, to those that are not
producing a positive return, then you will have squandered your alotment
and you will die being a negative return being yourself.

     Worse if you give away your affluence to a negative worth
individual, you will have ENABLED them to continue in their
negative worth path thus helping others that they effect to die also.

     You actually have a moral duty to NOT help certain people unless
you can turn their production around.

     I understand from your posts that you suspect that
>the human race is Gods conscious (or is it unconscious) dream.  I share that
>suspicion, but if that's the case, wouldn't giving pure untainted help be
>more pleasing to God than requiring an exchange for that help?  Isn't that
>why Karma is such a powerful force?

     Help is investment, it is investing in other's abilitys and skills
to invest, to sow and reap a positive profit return in the Sun/Earth

     I don't know what you mean by untained help, but if you mean
giving all you have to first in line beggars, then you and they will
shortly have nothing.  
     That is why people must bid for goods, they
don't get them simply because they were first in line at the
     Giving to first in liners is a *VERY* bad investment
     Perhaps once you have created affluence through intelligent
investment and sow and reap cycles, then you can afford to give to first
in liners as pure untainted charity, "Here go waste this too."

>On the other hand, help should be a choice, a choice that's made by a
>persons current spirituality and their means, it should not be a Government
>requirement.  Government requirements limit freedom of choice and inhibit
>spiritual growth. Nuts to the Gov't. :-)


     Government gives help to first in liners, it squanders the
production of the productive and gives it to the non productive or
negative producer.


Original posting

     Rubbish.  Here people who wish to belong to the established Church
have to pay tithes.

Fredric L. Rice (FRice@LinkLine.COM) wrote:
>That's a travesty of the idea of helping others.

     Help is not charity.

     All of life activities is help, people co producing and co
exchanging what they have produced.

     Charity is a very small subset of help.

     Help is people helping *EACH OTHER*.

     There is an implicit exchange involved.

     Whether two people help each other through co auditing, or one
audits another professionally and the other pays for it with money or
bartered services, its always a paid for exchange.

     Even offerings of charity should not go necessarily to those first
in line asking for a hand out.  It should be doled to those who are most
likely to make a return.

     In a welfare society where everyone has a right to live regardless
of their ability to live, or exchange for help, it becomes fashionable
to think that people should just hand out their work and produce to the
first beggar in line.

     In this road is death, as it disrupts Darwinian selection of the
survival of the fittest.  Fittest becomes defined as those most capable
of getting first in line, even over other's dead bodies, and asking for
or taking the biggest handout.

     "The Foundation of Life is Fair Chosen Exchange."