On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Christine wrote:

> >    Men become exactly and only what women operate them as
> Responsibility dump.

     You can have an effect on others. 
     That is part of the warp and woof of the postulates in this universe. 
     It's easy to dismiss the Adorian point of view by saying
'responsibility dump' because it looks like the man blaming the woman. 
     But the other side of the coin is woman taking responsibility for how
men turn out because they can and do have an effect, much larger than they
know, admit or want.  For women to say they don't have an effect over how
men turn out is a much bigger responsibility dump, its the responsibility
dump of a creator rather than of a creature. 
     Eventually the man must take responsibility for being the
effect of the woman, but Adore holds the mother as responsible 
over her children, it is she that is expected to be pan determined
over her creation, not just plop and drop and run from the consequences,
and it is the woman who is supposed to teach the man about being
a man and taking responsibility over being a man.
     Your position that Adore is a 'responsibility dump' is true
to the point of being nonsense.
     All teachers/auditors/creators must take full responsibility for the
outcome of their efforts.  It's fine to say 'responsibility dump!' when
the pc blames the auditor for a failed session, but its also a
'responsibility dump' when the auditor says "Hey its the pcs fault, I had
nothing to do with it." 

     Adore says that we are all totally responsibile for everything, not
just in wish but in truth.  How that could be is beyond most people at
this time, but nonetheless that is Adore's stance. 
     LRH says that when someone says its your fault, and you don't accept
responsibility for it, whether or not you 'did it', its a low tone denial
of pan determinism. - Advanced Procedure and Axioms.
     The Adorian viewpoint is not wrong and is more useful than the
prevailing viewpoint of most women that they had nothing to do with it.
     That's the auditor/creator blaming the pc.

     The blame cycles between mother and son are an early and fruitful
point of case entrance.  Children learn by mimickry.

     Child    Mimickry
     Woman    Harmony
     Man      Counterpoint
     God      New Beat