NATIVE STATE

                           9 July 2004

                 Copyright (C) 2004 Homer Wilson Smith
       Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes.
         ((Editor's comments in double parentheses - Homer))

     ((This is a transcript of a recorded phone conversation between
myself and Enid Vien.  This is the first in a series of attempts to go
over the Adorian catechism for agreements and disagreements between
us, a technical collaboration if you will.

     Adore stands for A Divine Operating Religion of Excellence of
which parts can be found at built by Christine

     OK, today is July 9th, 2004.

     So as I said, the catechism seems to exist as jig saw puzzle
pieces, and each piece has a title, and most of these pieces have some
page or another, or multiple pages in Adore, written back in 1985,
back in its baby phase, and then a lot of text written later in the
archives as the ideas matured and I did battle on Clear-L with most of
this stuff.

     Much of Adore is also counter opposed to everything else in the
world that anybody ever taught me, ((except LRH)), and that comes
across in its concepts, in that you can see for most of these concepts
there is a counter concept to which it is fighting.

     Which means that we need to pay close attention to some of this
stuff to make sure its not just creating another ridge.

     Adore is basically co heretical with Christianity, and pretty
much in alignment with Scientology ((fundamentals)), and all the other
clearing technologies.

     But you can still get into some serious arguments with even
scientologists, you know, you know how that goes.

     ((As for Christianity, Adore says that if you threw away everything
that made Christianity a different religion from all the other
religions of the world, you would have a good religion.

     However we will leave that alone for now :) ))

     Ok, so the first jigsaw puzzle piece is called Native State.

     And that's I guess what I would like to discuss today with you is
just exactly what the nature of native state is, and in particular the
change from native state to the first set of states after native
state, and what that stuff is like.

     All right, so, Ron said that native state was some kind of total
knowingness.  Which is interpreted by a lot of people to mean that the
being has infinite awareness, infinite consciousness, even if its not
of something, just consciousness.  Awareness of awareness as
sufficient communication.

     Adore disagrees with this.

     Adore says that the top dicom is To Manifest and To Not Manifest.
and consciousness is a form of manifestation.

     Therefore if one is to take this literally, the very top state
would be one of no manifestation at all, which would be one of sleep.

     Adore uses the idea that the world is a dream, just as an idea,
an awful lot, because it considers that the world is a hologram and
that the external physical realities are no more or less real than
they are when we are asleep in a dream.

     And so, Adore basically says that you are either asleep or you
are dreaming, and at the very top you have the Big Snooze, which is
the Eternity of No Manifestation, and then below that you have
manifestations where people have things that they are conscious of,
including themselves, the stuff they make, other people, and things
they share with other people, and it includes space and time.

     Do we have any immediate disagreement with that?

     Enid: No not exactly, the total knowingness that Ron talked
about, that other fellow that wrote Scientologie also talked about,
which is kind of an interesting point.  I don't know if it is of any
use, but it might be interesting to look at.

     OK, Adore has a very clear definition of that particular 'total
knowingness': the being in the native state is capable.

     It has potential, it does not have to learn how to do what it
knows how to do, but it doesn't have a word knowledge of it, or a
know-about knowledge of it or a postulated knowledge of it, it can
just do it.

     And the thing it can just do is, it can wake up, it can make
stuff, it can alter-is stuff, it can make stuff persist, and it can
make stuff vanish.

     And it doesn't have to think about it, it just knows, it is an
absolute expert at doing all that.  And it knows how to get into
communication with other beings, and all this stuff is second nature
to it because it is what it DOES.

     And in that sense it is a total knowingness.  In the sense of
does it know every digit of PI out to the last infinite digit?  Well
Adore has a specific answer to that also, which is, once it has
created a universe, and in that universe, once it has computed the
digit out to 20 billion places, it knows the digit out to 20 billion

     But in its native state it doesn't know all the digits of pi.
((It doesn't know any of the digits of pi.))

     So it doesn't have all this know about data of the universe as it
exists now, or any universe that has ever existed before or will.
It's just a total knowingness in terms of operating, and maybe total
knowingness is a bad term for it.

     I am not really sure what Hubbard meant by it.  I know he talked
about at the top you have Knowingness, and below that you make the
thing and you don't know anything about it and that's as-isness, and
then you know something about it, and that's alter-isness, and then
you go on and you play with it and that's isness etc.

     ((   KNOW       Native State      Big Snooze
          Not Know   As-isness         Vanishing Truth
          Know About Alter-isness      First Lie
          Play       Is-ness           Persisting Truth
    False Know About Alter-isness      Second lie.
          Play       Is-ness           Persisting Lie.
          Occlude    Not-Isness        Vanishing Lie.

     What does he KNOW in Native State?  He doesn't know anything in
specific, he just knows how to operate the states below that with
perfection.  In this sense KNOW means ABLE and doesn't preclude the
actual state of the thetan to be one of absolute sleep.))

     So at the very top you haven't even made anything yet so there is
nothing really to know.  So the only thing he can know is how to make
things, but not anything specific about what is going to be made or
has been made.  Can we agree with that at all?

     Enid: Yeah, as a matter of fact that is pretty much what I think.

     OK, good.

     Now, one of the reasons that Adore believes in this Snooze bit,
is because I want to go to sleep so badly!

     The problem is the being is trying to go to sleep in time, in
space time.  He is trying to move away from the things that are
impinging on him, and impingement is one of these words that is
probably a jigsaw puzzle piece that we will get back to later, but has
the word IMP in it, and Adore is fascinated by words that have the
word IMP in them.

     The being has created a series of impingements and now can not
escape them, and so he wants to find a corner of space time where he
can escape them.  But you can only escape impingements for a while in
space time, eventually they come after you and find you.

     So really to have a place of no impingements you would have to a
place of no space time.

     Any state of ON-ness ((being ON)), of manifestation, is a form of
being impinged upon even if its by your own awareness and your own
consciousness and your own creations.

     And so Adore insists upon a cycle of off and on, off and on, and
that fits the cycle of Manifest and UnManifest.  The off is the Big
Snooze, and the on is anything that is not Big Snooze.

     A hell is defined as anything that is on forever in time.

     A temporal foreverness.

     Even if its a positive pleasure, forever and ever and ever and
ever, and ever and ever, its a hell.

     Because after a while the being will begin to resent it.

     Because he wants to go to sleep, he's sick of pleasure.

     And if he can't go to sleep, if he can't turn it off, then he's
in a hell forever.  Thus if there is going to be some kind of Heaven
forever, the only kind of forever it could be is the forever of an
eternal sleep.  Not a temporal sleep where he can be impinged upon.

     That's ultimately where the forevers are acceptable, where you
have a forever of nothingness and its an eternal forever rather than a
temporal forever.

     An eternal forever of nothingness is eternal life, that's
actually eternal home.

     A temporal forever of nothingness is death.

     That's where "you die and that's it bud", and space and time go
on without you.

     ((Temporal forever of on is hell forever.

     Temporal forever of off is death forever.))

     So you have these two temporal forevers that people are swapping
back and forth between IN TIME, because they can't conceive of the
Eternal.  And they are living immortally in time, and its getting bad
and getting bad and getting bad, so they try to die now, they would
rather die forever in time, than live another day in time.

     And so they become mortal in their own view.  Now of course they
can't really become mortal, you can't die in time, you can only
pretend to do so, or you can only become something that is mortal in
time like a body, an organization of stuff, and if they can force
themselves to believe that they are a body, an organization that can
die, hard enough, they can believe that they WILL die.

     And that gives them the relief, while they are still alive, that
they are looking for that this is all going to end one day.  Of course
when they do die, they are still there, and they gotta do it all over

     ((This is an addiction to death.  It kills the pain of life, even
just the looking forward to death is like looking forward to Christmas
morning and all the presents as a kid.))

     And so they alternate being sick of living forever ((in time))
and being sick of dying forever ((in time)) and they flip back and
forth between the intensely religious immortal valence, and the
intensely irreligious ((meatball)) mortal valence.

     Because they are missing the third side which is being able to
drop out of time, and not have a temporal forever of anything, either
off or on, and have an Eternal forever of ((unimpingable)) sleep.

     Instead the being tries to enforce native state, sleep, in time.

     Do we have any disagreements there, or problems with that?

     Enid: I don't have any problems with it exactly, let me think
about that a bit, we may come back to it.

     OK, so Adore says that therefore a being, because it wants to
engage in cycles of manifest and unmanifest, and the cycles of
manifestation are always time of some kind or another, space time,
which may or may not be true, but let's just assume it is for the
moment, we are talking about manifestations in space time, that the
being therefore should not create anything that will last forever in

     Now one of the things that is not immediately apparent is that if
you create A you have immediately limited yourself to the number of
other things you can create because A is already sitting there in the
middle of your battle field.

     And if you stick yourself with A forever, in time, then you have
limited yourself to all the other things you can create that have to
be basically consistent with A.

     Therefore, if you want to manifest all your basic creative
abilities, you should never stick yourself with any one creation
forever.  Eventually you gotta be able to clean the slate, completely,
and start off with another B in the center of things.

     Do you see that process?

     Enid: Yeah, I see how you are looking at that.

     So the creation of anything limits what you can create after

     And if you create something forever, then you have forever
limited what you can create after that which means all of your
potential is being wasted, because you can create an infinite number
of different things.

     Therefore beings should not ever create anything that will last
forever in time, and because his basic desire is manifest and
unmanifest cycles, he would not.

     So you have should not and would not.

     OK, Adore goes one further step, it says, it says not only should
not and would not, but he can't ((create something forever in time)).
Because when he comes out of native state and he creates the concept
of time, it is always as a while, a finite amount of time, no matter
how long, but always countable.  He can then alter-is the concept of
the while to be infinitely long in order to get it to persist, but
notice this creates an instant ARC break as it violates his sovereign

     (("Majesty is the sovereign desire that desire not be sovereign
for a while." - Adore))

     And it is within that while that all creations take place.

     Therefore the being can not actually create an infinite number,
this is another theorem that comes out of this, a being can not create
an infinite number of something that is finite.  In other words, if
you have one marble, he can not create an infinite number of marbles.
He can create as many as he wants, and he can create 10 times that,
and 10 times that, and 10 times that, but its always countable.  He
can't have an infinite amount of marbles.

     Time being consecutive countabilities ((seconds etc)) he can't
have an infinite amount of time.  Space, being countable little cubic
inches going off in all directions, he can't have an infinite amount
space.  He can have as much as he wants though.  Without any problem.

     Since you can't have an infinite amount of time, you can't have a
hell that lasts forever in time, you can't have a heaven that lasts
forever in time.  You can't have anything that lasts forever in time.
Therefore all games must end one day, that have been created in any
particular while.

     Enid: Right, that's very clear.

     Ok, therefore there is no hell forever for anybody, no matter
what you have done, you can not go to hell forever.

     You can't go to heaven forever either.

     "As for heaven and hell the bad news is that heaven is empty.
the good news, is so is hell." - Adore

     The next thing that Adore says about the very top is that once a
game, once a space time while, has been completely and totally
as-ised, its gone.  The guy has no memory of it hanging around, the
guy when he wakes up from native state, its like the first time.  He
knows it isn't the first time, but he has no memory of prior times, he
doesn't want it, it's all gone, its as-ised, poof gone.

     He then creates a universe that lasts for a very long period of
time, that has all this detailed memory in it, but once the whole
universe ends, and everybody leaves it and that universe is over, and
it is as-ised by everybody who ever entered it, there is no data left,
there is no accumulating knowledge or wisdom or lessons or anything
that make the static better for having been in that game.

     And therefore the purpose of these games is NOT to learn lessons,
whatever the purpose may be.

     ((The game itself maybe a game of learning lessons, or unlearning
lessons if you want to go OT, but the final end result of having
played the game is not any lesson learned, but is in fact nothing
there at all, it never happened.  That's an as-isness you see.))

     And so far the only purpose I have stated is to manifest.

     To manifest and unmanifest and exactly what the guy is
manifesting, all right, let's get into that.

     What is he manifesting.

     Now certain people like Speaker, as best as I can determine, will
tell you that the being is willing to manifest anything.  And that you
should be willing to manifest anything.

     Adore strongly disagrees with this.

     Only within the limits of shouldn't, wouldn't and couldn't, he
will be willing to manifest anything that he can and that he would
and that he should.

     But I suggest that if you take a look at what is actually being
manifested you will find that its art.

     ((That's what the being would could and should manifest.))

     The being creates harmonies and disharmonies, dischords and
resolves, placed together in such a way that if you can see the whole
picture, from beginning to end, its a good story.

     And so we have the definition of God as an Author, and he writes
a story and he jumps into it and plays it as one of his own
characters.  And which character he plays doesn't matter.  Maybe he
starts off as good characters and they all decay into bad characters,
and maybe he starts off as bad and they all decay in to good,
hypocrisy is pretty thick in this place.

     But goodness for the character is not goodness for the Author.

     If an author wrote a story where only good characters existed and
only good things happened, no one would ever read the thing right?

     So, if we can understand the difference between author and
character we can understand the difference between goodness as a
creator and goodness as creature, and its pretty much that simple.

     The Creator is divine, the creature is holy or unholy as the case
may be.  :)

     If you want to be the Creator you have to be the Author, you have
to act as an Author would act.  If you want the power of an OT you
have to act from the motivations of an OT.

     And the motivations of the OT are the motivations of the author,
which are to better the story.  The story can be bettered while you
are in it.

     The original screen play as you pass through it can be changed.

     I can see all kinds of Bertrand Russell types saying "Oh my god
Homer, that's such bull," but I mean its a nice idea and I think
it works emotionally to some extent.

     Enid: Berty would have a cow.

     ((The issue is the true source of causality.  People think that
objects in the serial space time stream have causality between them,
the ball bounces off the wall BECAUSE the wall exerts cause over the
ball or they both exert cause over each other.

     Adore claims that this is an illusion as is all assignment of
cause to anything in the space time stream.  In fact it is the creator
of the space time stream, call Source by Adore, and the static by
Hubbard, that is cause of everything in the space time stream.  So the
static is causing both the ball and the wall to act AS IF they have
cause between them, virtual cause, but at all times any kinetics going
on in the world of motion is caused by the static at the top.

     In other words the illusion is that cause is serial between
objects in the space time stream, when in fact it is parallel between
the static and all the objects in the space time stream at once.

     The joke is that the source static can inject some of it self
into many places in the space time stream, thus being able to affect
things not only from the top down, but from the bottom up.

     Those injections of static are me and thee, the conscious unit,
which spends most of its time pretending it is an object in the space
time stream and thus acting in a causally serial manner, only causing
when effected etc, but can in fact act in a causally parallel manner.
Talk about OT.))

     We are talking words that don't make any sense here, I mean how
much of the universe is precreated, and how much you can change every
time you pass through it, I don't want to get into that argument, I
just want to get into what Adore is saying as a baby phase religion
that can barely think beyond its own bottle, that God is Author, and
people are author acting as characters, and that the goodness between
them are not the same.

     "Virtue for the Creator is not virtue for the Creature" - Olaf
Stapleton, Star Maker.

     Ok, at the top, the being has a state of total OKness, and this
is like really, really, really, really, really important, because this
is what everybody is seeking.

     This is a total resolution of all desires.  The being at the top
*HAS* everything that he wants, he's got options for what he wants to
make, but he can make anything he wants, so like he has what he wants
because richness is in options.  He's also in an unspeakable state of
absolute peace, so he has no need to make anything.

     You don't have to have built the empire, you just have to have
the ability to build it, and man you have got that empire.

     The being is in a state of perfect accord, which means his
fundamental desire and fundamental nature are in complete harmony with
each other.  That what is and what he wants are one and the same.

     The moment he wakes up he says, "Look at this, the best of all
possible worlds," infinitely happy, alone, forever and beyond thank

     ((Whatever anyone thinks they are ever going to feel or have from
attaining something in the space time, the native state being has
forever for free in infinite quantity.

     Talk about happy.  This is beyond happy, this is absolute peace
forever for free.  That is infinite havingness.

     This the "peace that passeth understanding."

     One may well ask why the native state being bothers to manifest
anything then?

     Adore says because there is an impulse to manifest the havingness
state of native state via losing it.  The MECHANISM of beautiful
illogic by which the thetan gets himself into states of loss ((any
manifestation is a state of loss)) is an equivalent beauty to the
peace at the top.  So although HE doesn't have the peace any more, the
universe still has it as a whole via his artful loss.

     "All suffering results from artful dodge." - Adore

     Its sort of like hanging one's self out to view at an art museum.

     They can't see him if he is asleep in native state.

     So he blows himself up into manifestation in an effort to convey
what home is really like.  The manifestation is the opposite in very
aspect of what his home is.  That's why its so funny.

     "Source sources what source is not." - Adore

     He wants to show the beauty of infinite peace, but can't, so he
shows the beauty of infinite peace through infinite loss.

     It just so happens that the *MECHANISM* of loss reflects the
beauty of the native state peace.

     This ain't no mere consideration, this is an AMAZING truth.

     So dig and don't leave it.

     The opposite of a God in native state is a meatball about to die
forever in "time, stone and dust in the wind."

     *HE* can't see his own beauty while hanging on a cross in that
art museum, if he did he would fall off it and go poof back to native
state, but anyone else can who has the understanding, who can see the
illogic of his ludicrous demise.

     Its a tragic-comedy the soul puts on for his audience, everyone
else in the universe.  Most of them are putting on their own, so they
don't get it humor either, the halcyon and humor, but its there for
all to see as they get out, not only their own but everyone else's who
is still going on.

     The beauty and love of that humor is our eternal gift to each
other.  Eternality expressed in temporality.

     "Halcyon is high appreciation for ludicrous demise.

     Halcyon is bemused relief on the verge of time.

     The cold cruel wounds of winter are healed by the halcyon winds
of summer."

     So its a way of sharing self with others in a way that can't be
done in native state.  Of course there is no need to do it in native
state either, but

     "Class is prone to operating Majesty once in a while, but only
through great responsibility."))

     OK, so back to native state here.

     From that state of perfect accord, he then starts to create
things.  The creation takes place by mere consideration, in that in
the mere considering of something it comes to be.  He doesn't have a
chance to pre judge it or to think what he wants to create before he
creates it, unlike how things work down here on Earth.

     So in the mere consideration of something, he's got it.

     Now he doesn't necessarily get stuck with it.  He can, if he
decides that he doesn't want it, let go of it and its gone, because it
is still an as-isness.

     He hasn't altered it yet to a point where he can't get rid of it.

     He's got veto power over anything that he makes.

     His veto is controlled by his appreciation of what he has created
and willingness to view more.

     So he's in a state of total OKness, and as such he's also got
total power, because he can create anything, he can create universes,
its no problem to him to cast the mountain sideways because he is
putting the mountain where it is.  He just stops putting there and
puts it somewhere else and there he's done it.

     "He who made it can approach unto it" - Book of Job, Bible.

     Now down at the bottom, he has created a state of the fundamental
desires whatever they are, colored by the additions to his desires,
because now he desires, food, clothing, shelter, sex, work, beauty,
music, art, culture, everything that Freud called 'libido'.

     Libido is basically the impulse to create and enhance on all 8

     So the desire is very colorful rather than the fundamental desire
for OKness.

     But his desire is in a collision with his world view, and
although it doesn't look like it to us, his world view is actually
creating the state of not havingness for him.  This was in part
intentional in order to make a game out of havingness to put time
between desire and having, and part intentional to make the game very
hard sometimes to win at all.

     So has created a game where he doesn't get merely by considering,
although he is in fact getting that game merely by considering
although it won't look like it to him.

     He may get a vision merely by considering, but he doesn't have
merely by considering any more, and so now he's got to go out and do,
that is what this universe is about, is what to do to bring about what
you desire.

     And so you have a game, you have time is being used to come
between the moment of desire and the moment of havingness.  And that's
what the game is, getting from desire to havingness.

     When people start to lose that game, they want to have more
power, because they usually consider they are losing because they
can't fight back hard enough.  Life consists mostly of life fighting
other life for survival.

     And eventually they want to have OT power back again, because
they want to wipe out all the assholes in the world, and make a
perfect civilization, and make everything great and have only good
people around, and just write a terrible story, right?

     What they are doing is they are seeking OKness through changing
the world as it is, by seeking power to change it.

     "If I could just change the world, everything would be OK again."

     But OKness doesn't come from having and using power, power comes
from having OKness.

     So the minute that guy is sitting there in the space time
continuum, and he says I don't like it as it is, I want it to be
different, he has just made it a little more solid particularly
if he is deadly serious about it, because that's NOT OKness you see?

     He has created a game for himself, because now its going to be a
little harder to get to where he wants to go.

     The more solid it gets the more power he wants, the more unhappy
he is with the power he has, the more he resents things as they are,
more he has GOT to get to this other thing, the more solid it becomes,
eventually he stops himself in space time glass where he can't move at
all.  And he is frozen there like an ant in amber for everyone to look

     All based upon being really pissed off that he can't get to where
he wants and doesn't have enough power, and will never be OK with
himself unless he gets to where he wants etc.

     And results in having no power, where you can't move at all and
everything else is glass because you are trying to make things OK by
having more OT or Author power.

     Your average human being, if you said to him, "if you could get
out of your body, if you could move the marble on the table, if you
could have telepathy, if you could kill at a distance, if you could go
into other people's rooms and offices and observe, what would you DO
with all that power?"

     They would immediately start listing how they would benefit
themselves, their own body survival and mankind.

     Because that's what they want the power for, is basically to not
play the game at the power levels they were given, but to break the
rules of the game and survive anyhow.  Because they are really deathly
afraid of not surviving.  They are so afraid of losing the game, they
don't want to play the game, so any way to cheat or bypass the game
becomes desirable.  This after they designed the damn game for
themselves in the first place.

     This of course will never work, the guy who wants to go OT,
because he is trying to keep himself as a body alive forever is not
going to work.  The guy who wants biological immortality is a nut
case, that's NEVER going to work.

     The only way they are going to get these powers back, aside from
accepting full responsibility for the power levels they have, is to
get to the OKness first which in fact comes from accepting that
responsibility and understanding how and why one designed the game as
one did in the first place.  It will never happen on a protest.

     And then as the OKness comes on, every time its OK the mountain
is there, they then have the ability to move it.

     Now isn't that a hoot?  All this seeking for power is a complete
trap if its based upon it is SERIOUSLY NOT OK the mountain is there.

     They want to help the world, they want to help the poor starving
people in China, they want to help the Bangladeshis, they want to help
the AIDS people, they want to help every poor dear innocent victim
that has ever walked space time, all this suffering is NOT OK, NOT OK,

     Every morning they wake up and they are spewing psychic storm
everywhere of NOT OK, NOT OK, and they are begging God to give them
the ability to do something about it, and questioning God when he
doesn't or doesn't handle it himself.  That's not wanting to play, you

     They will tell you life is not a game, life is serious, GRRRRRR!

     You know what they mean by life is serious?

     Life is FOREVER!  That's what they mean.

     You see that's dramatization, seriousness, importance,
*PERMANENCE* and pain.

     Games are played with spirit of play, its OK that there is
something you want to change, and with that OKness comes the power to
change it, but little inclination to use that power as the game is
already set and the being wants to play by the rules at hand than he
wants to win or get rid of the game at any cost.

     Life on the other hand, for most people, is its not OK there is
something to change, its not OK that the bangladeshis are all starving
to death, no one would have *ASKED* for that in any game, you see?
Total irresponsibility.

     Now he's begging God or the Author to DO something about it, and
apologize for having allowed it to happen in the first place, and he
wondering who or what is cause around here and why is it such an
asshole!  ((Adore's definition of religious insanity.))

     The guy down deep knows that even if God did change it, answer
his prayers he STILL would never forgive God for having created it in
the first place awaiting his prayers.  "What I gotta pray for things,
for you, Mr.  Omniscience, to know better?"

     And he falls down from there to believing that God doesn't exist,
and boy is he gone at that moment.  Because saying that God or Author
doesn't exist, says that sentient Cause doesn't exist either, one that
can be reasoned with, appreciated and embraced, or one that you can

     People eventually succumb to 'embracing' cause, the cold dead
physical universe of MEST by going into its valence and acting like
it, ruthless, merciless, uncaring and unthinking.

     And 5 lifetimes later they are a stone at the bottom of the

     OK, there is a mechanism behind that and it has to do with these
whiles.  It has to do with forevers.

     Forevers are the single most important thing, Adore says, that
you have to audit out of a case.

     Because they have to do with dramatization.  Dramatization means
bringing drama to, and drama basically a dicom to OKness.

     Drama something ain't OK.

     If you have a football game and you got the playing field and you
got the ball, and you got the two teams, and you invite the other team
onto the playing field to play against you, you have a state of total
responsibility for ((the presence)) of both sides on the playing
field.  Both sides agree to come in, they shake hands before they
start the game, they let their cheerleaders do their cheerleading half
way between the game at the half time festivities, and at the end when
the game is over they all walk past each other shake hands and they
plan for the next game.

     This is the way games are played, its OK that the game exists,
its OK that you are there, and its OK that the other guy on the other
side is there, and its OK that you are going to play against each

     Notice each side wants to win, but in the end if they are honest
about it, they want to play more.  So its OK if they lose.  Its NOT OK
if they can't play.  THAT's a disaster.  You get this?

     So although it is tempting to say that for each side its NOT OK
if the other side wins, its certainly OK for them to try to win.  And
frankly if they do win, well that's OK too, because there will be
another game and we can all try again.

     Neither side loses the ability to play the game merely by losing
one or more of them.

     Now let's say some guy on that playing field decides he doesn't
like that other team being there.  This is a real problem to him, so
he puts a bomb in the ball and tosses it to the other side and blows
them up and kills them.

     You see this guy is so afraid of losing the game, that he doesn't
want to play, he wants to destroy the game.  He's trying to 'win' by
making the other side not exist at all.

     But if he wanted the other side to not exist why did he invite
them in the first place?  Doesn't make any sense does it?

     So maybe he thinks that someone else invited this other team in,
and he was opposed to that decision, had nothing to do with it, was
surprised by it, doesn't want to play them but has no choice, total
irrespsonsibility etc, and so now he is going to 'deal' with the
problem forever more.

     So the guy has fallen from responsibility for the other side, to
no responsibility for the other side to trying to destroy the other

     Which means I never want to play with you, I don't want to play
you now, I don't ever want to play you again, ever, ever, ever, ever
no matter what, and I don't want to HAVE ever played you in the past
and I don't want you to have ever been here, or existed at all.

     You see, forever, forever, forever, forever.

     Now this happens in the good versus evil game, the good
characters versus evil characters.

     Good people don't enjoy fighting evil, at least they won't admit
they do, and maybe some of them will even say oh yeah, this is the
purpose of life, the grandest game in the world is to crusade against
the assholes, best rewards in the Heavens come from doing your best at
this game etc.  But if you ask them would you CREATE evil people in
their absence so that you could fight them?  They would say no.

     I don't want to fight evil, I don't want people to be evil, I
don't want there to be evil ((so I have something to do when I get up in
the morning)), I want a forever where there is no evil forever,
forever, forever, forever.

     They really wish they wish there was no evil *FOREVER*.

     It's not good to want evil to exist, you see?

     So here you have a good person facing an evil person.  And the
good person wants the evil out of his game, the good person is not
PUTTING the evil person there, not INVITING the evil person to the
playing field, in order to then engage in a fight.

     He's saying that evil came by itself, I had nothing to do with
it, I didn't invite him in, I didn't create him, I didn't make him
evil, I don't want him here, I didn't write or agree to the rules of
warfare between good and evil, show me the god damn invitation!

     And there is none as far as he is concerned.

     So he is fighting something that he didn't START, he's trying to
STOP something that he didn't start, there is no start on this guy,
all there is change and stop.  He's not free to just let it be.

     And Hubbard says that people go insane at the moment they become
totally devoted to stopping something, and the reason is because they
ain't starting.

     If the guy really wanted to get rid of the evil person, he would
start him twice, he would get a complete as-isness on having invited
him in, and bang the evil person would be out of the good person's

     But he is not doing that, so now he is stuck with the evil

     Now whatever he does from then on out to vanquish that evil, he
is ultimately going to lose, because the worst he can do is scatter
the evil person's parts to the wind, they will just regather as
somebody else evil bigger and stronger.

     "Do not rejoice that you have crossed the seas and beat the
beast, because the bitch is in heat again." - Poet.

     The point is, is that the good guy is dramatizing a forever on
the evil guy.  He is dramatizing, I want you to not exist forever, I
want you to never have existed forever, and I want you to never exist

     And you are so evil, that I will NEVER forgive you, ever, ever,
ever, no matter what.  I just want you to not be.

     He is dramatizing... well look, he came into the time while with
a circle of friends, and they are all holding hands and they are all
saying "Yeah!  Here we are!" Let's play a game, you be good and I be
bad.  You be black and I be white ((chess)).

     And then they all off to their corners and they go "OK Go!" and
the game happens now.

     At the end of the game, they are all gonna be friends again,
drinking lemonade, laughing it up, telling tall tales, recounting what
happened, choosing sides again, making a better game, and that game
ends and the next game starts.

     "This dream ends forever when the circle of friends are all
holding hands again." - Adore

     This assumes of course that it always will, that any game will
always end one day.

     Because all dreams have to end, all whiles have to end.

     The game players could not, would not have wanted it any other
way, and thus total responsibility for creation of the game demands
that the game is in fact this way.

     Each soul is like a multi headed coin, with many heads, but just
one tail.  It's convenient to forget that on one side we are same coin
just because on the other side we are all different coins.

     Therefore the guy who is dramatizing forever on this evil guy is
assuming that he will never ever have to hold hands with that guy and
be friends again.  You can't do this to another being without doing it
to a part of yourself, because you and everyone else have a side that
is One.

     And he is denying that he ever had any responsibility for being
friends with that guy in the first place, inviting him into the game
and choosing up sides.  Every time a being denies responsibility for
another player in the game, that's just one more section of the
universe the denier loses total control over.  Eventually they come
after one.

     Since each being is in fact an entire universe unto himself,
denying even one being is denying an entire universe of life.

     So when somebody is dramatizing a forever, they are violating the
while as a physical fact, and they are violating their own Sovereign
Desire, and thus they go down tone.

     Because you can't wish a forever off on another being without
wishing a forever off on yourself because you are going to carry that
forever that you wished off on another being, with yourself FOREVER.

     Five forevers from now, are you still going to be happy that guy
you hated is still in hell forever?

     And therefore it sits on your playing field as an A around which
everything you create must conform.

     You also can't wish a forever off on another being with
destroying your own sovereign desire forever, because you are
violating your own sovereign desire forever.

     Your sovereign desire is to have friends, is that "*ALL* should
live forever and be my friend," and to play games for a while, and
then to go back to sleep, *TOGETHER*.

     Hell is a kind of sleep together in time.  Your bunk mates are
the people you wished forevers on but you got there first.

     Hell is an enforced native state, and enforced basic truth IN

     Native state is sleep together forever for free, because you all
laughed yourself to sleep in Eternity.

     "In hell people cry themselves to sleep forever.

     "In heaven people laugh themselves to sleep forever."  - Adore.

     Sovereign Desire means you want it, you got it.  This is Adore's
way of saying that things are created in the mere consideration of
them.  It is also Adore's way of talking about the fundamental desires
of the being which can not, would not and should not be changed or be
any different.

     In other words the being doesn't desire just anything, he desires
art, and art is not arbitrary, its mathematical harmonies,
disharmonies, discords and resolves, and thus everything the being
creates from the top on down flows from these sovereign desires,
and arises because of these sovereign desires and is governed by these
sovereign desires.

     The minute you say here is an asshole, and I want him to go
forever, and ever and ever, you have just said that you can't have
what you really want forever.

     To be with forever ((Eternally)) but apart for only a while.

     So as long as somebody is casting these forevers on other people,
places or things, he immediately suffers the consequences of it
himself, and that then generates the hells that he himself is living
in and will end up in with greater clarity when he dies.

     You can't actually make another suffer a forever, you can only
make yourself suffer a forever by wishing one off on another!

     You know they say hell is made of fire and brim stone, well let
me tell you, hell is full of 'things' but has no light at all.  You
never know what's coming for you until it gets you, and you never know
what it was after it has had its fill.

     So basically this is why Adore says that

     "The only people who go to hell forever are those who are wishing
something or someone else into hell forever.  They only go to hell
forever for exactly as long as they continue to do that, and they can
only continue to do that for a while." - Adore

     Do you want to know just exactly how long hell lasts when you

     There is your answer.

     For as long as you can stand it.  For a while.

     Notice this applies not just to wishing hell or death or
something bad forever off on someone, but wishing ANYTHING forever in
time off on anyone or anything.

     And therefore 'There is peace in the thought that one day all men
will attain the awakened state.' - Adore

     You follow this?

     Enid: Absolutely.

     Which is true, but now the guy has a whole track of people coming
forward that he detests, that he wished never existed, don't exist,
and never will exist, and never will exist again.  And a whole mess of
people feel exactly the same way about him.

     Talk about a karma group.

     And every one of these forevers that he is still pushing, is
pushing his own sovereign desire into greater and greater apathy, and
that is what he can't confront.  It's the fact that he is not sovereign.

     That gives him the *WILLIES*.

     He will never be able to confront that, non sovereignty is not
confrontable, period.

     The only way he can confront it at all is to recognize
analytically that its not true that he isn't sovereign, and walk into
each one of these dark spots with invisible things tugging at him,
with a faith that it isn't true, that he CAN make friends with this
thing no matter what it is, make it smile, make it laugh, enjoy the
joke together, no matter what language, jokes are always the same,
smiles are always the same, and one by one get these things out of the
dark closet that he has made permanent enemies with.

     "Spot a sovereignty".

     "Spot a non sovereignty".

     Run to understanding.

     And so we have the definition of dramatization as importance,
seriousness, *PERMANENCE*, which is the most important one, and pain.

     And seriousness blows off as humor, so when he finally gets the
joke he played on himself which is this thing with forevers, he ends
up in the blast of release which is the humor, and then it resolves
into peace and snooze.

     And he goes basically back into a state of snooze on that
particular guy, and there is no charge left.  He has gone back to
sleep with the guy.  The guy is no longer a part of his karma group.

     And when he has gone back into a state of snooze on all of his
forevers, he's not here any more.

     Or he can be if he wants to be.

     The call of humor can be pretty strong, its like the smell
of coffee in the morning.

    "Halcyon is bemused relief on the verge of time."

     But he doesn't have to be, he can sleep in FOREVER ((Eternally)),
and he knows he has to pretend a forever or two to stay in the
dreamtime for long without waking at the first sneeze.

     OK, that's all I have to say for the moment on this.

     Enid: I followed all of it, and I don't really have a
disagreement with with it.  I think there is a probably a difficult
getting this into a format that people can grasp it in.

     Well on Grade VI, we run "What are you dramatizing?", and if you
define dramatizing as seriousness, importance, permanence and pain,
what ever the items that come up, one can then start to run those 4
things on that item, until you get the God Postulate off and humor.

     And most people are good at this, they spot the item and they
start laughing.

     Sometimes you can start laughing and you just have no clue why.

     ((Humor is the light at the end of the tunnel, the light that the
Christians saw and 'comprehended it not'.

     The Christians said no way is God funny.

     God is SERIOUS!.  Sin is SERIOUS!


     So they slammed the door shut on the light from there on out.

     It can be argued that humor is not at the top of the tone scale,
and Adore has little argument with that.  But its an awfully easy
climb from humor to Eternal Omni Awesome Peace.

     In breath takes you to humor, out breath takes you to peace.

     And we have to admit that things would be a lot better if we
could just get our pc up to Eternal Good Humor.

     Where breathing alone is sufficient reason to be.

     "Majesty is Eternal Good Humor born of Mastery of Songs of Sin
and Hidden Joy.   Master of Jest.

     JEST is Jokes of Eternal Self Treason.

     JEST is Justice of Eternal Self Truth.

     Sin-song is to sing another Source done wrong song.

     Sin-song is not sin as long as it is just song." - Adore

     Sin-song is seriousness and is a dicom to good humor.))

     ARC breaks is a very hard level to run, I would guess because
that is where most of these forevers are hiding, because its an ARC
break with Sovereign Desire that's bothering the person.

     The 'sovereign burn'.  He's been burned, and he knows it, and he
KNOWS there is no getting over it.  It is inconceivable to him that
there is anything humorous about it, so he looks for OTHER solutions
and never finds.

     ((However if he thinks about it for a moment he will see that
humor is the only thing that will heal the burn.

     And here is where an application of a little faith is needed to
keep looking until you find that humor.

     "Wit is intelligence, wit is laughter.  Wit's End is the end of
intelligent laughter." - Adore.))

     And I have a feeling a lot of people don't make Grade III very

     Enid: I have always thought Grade III was inadequate and I run it
very differently.  Mine is better, but its not the whole answer.

     There is something here called the Doubt Effect, and the Adorian
plate on it is 'Doubt is Self Casting'.

     To cast as in to cast a spell or to cast a fly fishing rod, or
just to cast out and create out there.  If you have a person sitting
in the middle of eternity, just OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, for all of
eternity to the left and all of eternity to the right, and in the
middle of this eternity he suddenly gets the idea you know maybe I am
not immortal.

     How's he gonna feel?  He's going to feel terrible.

     All this OKness is suddenly going to become NOT OKness because he
just violated his own sovereign desire.

     What he will then DO is take the intensity and disharmony of the
negative feeling and use it as further evidence that he is right that
he is not going to live forever.

     The emotions stirred up by the doubt act as proof that
the doubt is correct!

     In that sense doubt is self casting.

     The immortal being considers for a moment that he is mortal, and
he feels so bad, he thinks how could I feel this bad about being
mortal, if it weren't actually true that I was.

     So once a guy falls for that he goes into a very fast dwindling
spiral because there is no getting out of it, because he doesn't see
what he is doing.  He is knowing by emoting rather than
knowing by knowing.  He is knowing by being and effect of his
emotions, rather than knowing by being cause, where knowing creates

     He is taking the emotion and using it as evidence.

     What he will do from then on is, all right we have another one
here we might as well talk about...

     If any time he has a question that is looking for an answer,
which is a really foolish thing to be engaged in in the first place,
and this is a whole another jigsaw puzzle piece that we will get into
at another time, any time he is looking for an answer to a question
and he does not know what the answer is, but he has a range of
options, he will take the option that makes him feel the worst.

     The one that gives him the most certainty of badness, the thing
that can hit him the hardest is the ruling idea.

     Because he is just sure that the loudest possible negative
feeling is one that is true now.  Because he has this doubt effect
chain going on that is really nasty that has to do with doubting his
own sovereignty.

     And doubting sovereignty, it creates a wall of, there's no words
for it yet, the wall of bugs, the wall of fire, the wall of monster
vibrations, whatever it is, the day that sovereignty went into doubt,
it was self proving, that was the end of the being.

     Well it was the end of his native state for sure, and the beginning
of his ever descending dreamtime.

     Everything else followed from then.

     And so he is still doing it, and so he is accumulating beliefs as
time goes on that are the ones that make him feel the worst.

     And they get out of that at Grade III.

     At Grade III, like Hubbard says, the guy can finally find correct
answers on the list, he won't just hand you the most ARC broken out
list answer he can find and consider it the first item on the list.

     So it is very hard to list people who are not Grade III's,
because they give whatever will crucify them the fastest.

     Humor never crosses their mind and is never used with the word
truth in the same sentence.

     At Grade III, once they see the mechanism of doubt self casting,
they won't accept the bad feeling answer, only the good humor feeling

     They will keep going *HAPPILY* knowing that there is a good feel
answer, until they find it, which is the correct answer on the list.

     And they will go forever until they get it because they know it
is there, and they can usually get it pretty quickly because they
don't have this problem of worrying all these other things to the bone
that aren't good feel answers.

     You know, "lets see how bad I can make myself feel over
this answer, maybe then I will see it is the correct item on the list."

     OK, well as I said that's about it for the moment.

     Enid: OK.

     It would seem that an approach could be made out of this.  That's
what I have been trying to do, is start at the top down, the distance
between the top and where we are now is so great that I can't conceive
the distance.  So a lot of this stuff works in my dreams, but it
doesn't necessarily work here.

     And I still think an auditing approach could be made to this so
that somebody who is already fundamentally able and who is ready,
could have a very fast and thorough clean up.  So that he was back at
that state of OKness again, and not dramatizing survival, survival,
survival, offend and defend, offend and defend which gets him deeper
into the game.

     Sometimes I feel that this game... have you ever in a
swimming pool dove off the edge and they tell you to see how far you
can glide?  Its a test for how streamlined you can make your body and
whether you know to put your head in the water instead of up and how
to hold your feet, and the people who can glide the furthest are the
people who are most efficient when they actually swim.

     Well I think this space time is like this, the game is, you come
rushing into it with an enormous speed, and you know you are going to
end up in glass at the end, but the person who ends up furthest in
before he turns to glass is the one that wins.

     There is no real operating the seriousness, permanence and pain
of this place and succeeding, because he is not PUTTING THERE what he
is trying to change.  And that's like the most important concept, if
you just run on somebody what are you not putting there, I don't know
if it would ever work.  Probably kill him first.  Perhaps run instead
what are you putting there?

     But the guy is not putting there what he is trying to get rid of.
So how can you get rid of it if you are not putting it there
especially since the way to get rid of something is to put there

     Exactly as he originally did it, or agreed to it, or was willing
to have it be, etc.

     Enid: It's exactly backwards to the way most people think.

     Yeah it was designed that way, that's the whole point.  They come
here to persist as long as they can.  If they got it right, they would
vanish and the game would vanish, and we wouldn't have the game.  And
so the backwardness is really important because it's not a wrongness,
it's a rightness.

     And only the beings that are no longer interested in seeing how
much further they can go before they can't move at all, only those
beings are really auditable.  Everybody else just wants to, I don't
know, improve their game a little bit so they can rush deeper in
before they turn into glass.

     And if you recognize that, you can actually help those people
optimize their rush a little bit so they can get a little further in.

     But you know I don't really want to audit those kind of people,
even though a lot of them are making a lot of money.

     I would rather audit the people that want to get out but
unfortunately most of the people who really want to get out, or who
want to get back to the OKness, are doing so poorly in life because
they have waited so long, that they don't have the money to pay for

     Often when you audit people with money, eventually their ethics
comes up and they give it back!

     On the other hand, the very able people who are totally tied up
in tar, huge beings in huge tar pits, have their own overts to
confront, but they don't have the present time wherewithal to have an
auditor pull the withholds or find the correct items of dramatization.

     So there is this constant conundrum.  So hopefully there are some
people with some money who are wise enough to recognize there is
something wrong with the way things work, and they want to not be part
of the problem any more.

     Because anyone broadcasting seriousness and permanence into the
world, that's a psychic storm that is going on in him all the time, 24
hours a day.  Everyone he touches, they either agree on their
seriousness and their permanences, they establish their sympathies and
regrets like Hubbard says in Advanced Procedure and Axioms, or they
don't.  And if they don't agree, they end up not being friends,
because they can't co dramatize together, and if they do they end up
being friends.

     So the guy accumulates around him other people postulating the
same psychic storms on the same subjects.  So now you have a cluster

     They may not be together in the same town, but where ever these
guys are even on the internet, they are all cluster storming together,
with their common dramatizations, permanences, importances,
seriousnesses and pains.

     I mean anybody doing that at all is a part of the problem and not
a part of the solution.

     He falls into defending by offending, and away we go.

     Cause he is not going in the direction of OKness, of attaining
OKness first and power second, he's trying to attain power first and
OKness second, or trying to attain OKness by changing things as they
are, and ends up in corruption, temptation and seduction and going out
ethics and eventually becoming the people he wants to fight.

     Because when he turned to glass fighting asshole A, well asshole
A is not glass.  He wins, let's become asshole A!  And then he can
fight for a while longer.

     Then as asshole A he becomes glass fighting some good guy, and
the good guy is not glass yet, so he becomes the good guy.  He keeps
changing valences leaving glass valences behind him in the bank.

     Flip flopping back and forth between good and bad, each one at a
lower and smaller sphere of influence than the one he left behind.

     That's pretty sick, not many people have the guts to behold that,
because it totally invalidates their entire life, their entire
everything they hold dear is totally wrong.

     Because the only thing that is really dear is sovereignty, not
all this fighting the good fight that eventually ends one up in tar
and obsidian glass and crazy glue, buried like sardines next to the
very guys one was trying to put out of business forever.

     Sovereignty is OKness and humor.

     You know, like, what could never be funny?

     What is NOT funny!

     Ooooh, that will go right into what are you not putting there.

     It's sort of an ARC break process, I don't think Hubbard would
ever want to run it, he would want to run 'What is funny?' right?  But
you are right, I like to go for the ARC break processes just to find
the damn items that I am dramatizing.  You know, asking me 'What is
funny' would produce a comm lag 5 millenia long on me.

     Have you ever run "What is not funny?"

     Enid: As a matter of fact it was a process that Ron came up for a
case that was not cogniting and he had somebody run this thing on her,
and it cracked her case.  It doesn't run on everybody.

     If you were to run a process like this, would you run the
negative, the positive or both?

     What is not funny?

     What is funny?


     Enid: I would probably alternate.

     Alternate, OK.  Because most people tell me not to run the ARC
break side, but run only the ARC side, what is funny.

     Enid: I don't agree with that because if you only run the ARC
side, you get sweetness and light.

     It doesn't eventually go into the other side on its own accord?

     Enid: Well the person may drop into it, but more likely they will
get an F/N and want to quit.

     Right.  OK.

     Yes, especially if you stop at the first F/N.

     So you really have to know the E/P of this thing, which is
massive line charges hopefully, but more specifically spotting the
core items of seriousness, importance, permanence and pain.

     And a return of OKness, a taste of that peace that passeth
understanding because its Eternal and not temporal.

     All right Enid, we can do this forever.

     Enid: OK, for free!  Forever for free as you put it!

     ((Both of us laughing.))

     Yeah you bet.

     OK, till next time.

     Enid: OK

     Thank you very much Enid.  Bye bye.

     Enid: Bye.


Homer Wilson Smith     The Paths of Lovers    Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF        Cross            Internet Access, Ithaca NY    In the Line of Duty

Homer Wilson Smith     The Paths of Lovers    Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF        Cross            Internet Access, Ithaca NY    In the Line of Duty

Fri Nov 11 21:13:57 EST 2005