On Dec 6, 6:19?am, Keith  wrote:
> IMO Oatee powers are mostly a plate of wishful thinking with a healthy
> heaping of "Scientology processing" to unhinge one's perception of
> what's actually going on. Mass delusion by agreement. Riddle me this -
> why don't we ever hear Oatees doing something to help mankind. How about
> postulating some well-fed children for a change. This "yes I can, no you
> can't" is getting very silly.
> In the 40+ years Scientology has plagued mankind, no one even came close
> to proving the validity of "the state of clear", let alone any oatee
> powers. At least this is the way this wog sees it.
> If I'm wrong, forget showing off your powers. Feed some starving
> children - postulate trucks of food; that will show them unbelievers.
> Personally, I couldn't care if you can move mountains and leap tall
> buildings. If you have this ability (even though you argue against
> demonstrating it), help some people who need it.
> That would impress me. Not useless banter whether they exist or not. And
> to be honest, if anything is possible in improving the human spirit and
> aiding in the discovery of possible new abilities, I would seriously
> doubt that Scientology would fill this bill.
> --
> Cheers,
> Keith
> PS Above is only my opinion.

Dapperdobbs said:
 IMO, you are a smart and practical guy Keith, and I get this idea you
 help people as you can, when you can, with your rationality and I'm
 sure you have many friends and will do continue to do very well in
 life. It is important, and people do try to do the best they can even
 in the face of a great many very personal reasons to hate and quit and
 destroy. Those trying to do good by making positive statements make
 easy targets for the tiny minority who would ridicule anything
 positive - I wish I knew the entire 'secret' as to why that is, but I
 see it on the internet all the time - 'trolls' who seem to have no
 other purpose than inciting to riot, and the only logical point these
 'guys' have is to make wrong. I know it's not that hard to make
 someone right, with just a little looking and a little thought. With a
 little practice, it's possible to learn to ask someone a question with
 real personal interest to them, to try to get them to see a bit more
 about themselves or about others. I know someone who is really good at
 asking good questions, and the guy isn't a Scientologist.
 My personal experience in this life has not been an easy one - good
 spots and rough spots, but the bad spots almost killed me. I'm sure
 you're used to hearing people tell you stories of their lives. When I
 ran into Sccn, it was still an OK organization. It had just started
 turning bad. So I left. But the brief contact I had with it literally
 saved me by getting me back on track in life. I got a lot of support
 from my family and friends too. When some smarter guys in Scn left the
 CoS, I got in touch with them, and then I made some real progress. For
 literally one-tenth the money the CoS wanted, I got my OT levels in.
 This was not perfect, understand, but it was good enough for me to
 achieve what I set out to get.
 This is hard to express or say, and I'm not trying to be an ass or
 make anyone feel guilty, but somehow some people had more solid
 footing in life than I did. Not many, OK, but to do what I wanted, to
 have what I still want, requires a high level of smarts, and I've met
 guys who have a better grip on things. Through my own efforts, and
 through auditing to straighten out some major strictly personal
 roadblocks, I see that the trouble I got into, I created. I got into
 it. Sure there were a minortiy of people there pushing anyone they
 could into trouble, and a lot of people who didn't know what to do or
 didn't care, and too few people to catche me before I screwed up. I
 also see that getting out of trouble is my doing. Scn was there, but I
 took it and used it.
 A few months ago, all on my own, and for the first time in my life,
 fully conscious, fully awake, I moved out of my body. I'm sure there
 are some who might read that and laugh, and think about some guy who's
 now really screwed up. OK with me - I try not to tell someone what to
 think. Part of going exterior at will with full perceptics is the
 simple and very real realization that one exists in one's own
 universe, independently of others. Although agreements do exist, these
 are made (agreed on) by an individual, and he's free to unmake them at
 any time. I'm not talking about intentional betrayals, you understand,
 simply the facts that because I agree to meet someone tomorrow doesn't
 mean I can't go on and live my life inbetween now and then. That's
 really obvious, but when one gets into recollections of past lives,
 and the physical world, it takes on a kind of a bigger weight - that
 is my experience, in any case.
 Certainty is a funny thing. If one is certain about something, one is
 certain of it. I don't have any "super abilities" (as much as I
 imagine I would like to have some). I can't move ashtrays - or I
 haven't yet, in any case. I'm not sure I would tell, if I did, but
 then again, I'm not what anyone would call a conformist. One thing I
 am absolutely certain of is that if I do move an ashtray, it will seem
 like the most perfectly normal and natural thing in the world to me,
 If I may ask you to retread back to where I started, many many years
 ago, I would have thought that if I could ask someone a simple natural
 logical question that led the guy to see more about himself and life,
 I'd be some kind of supernatural genius. That's where I was. Today, I
 sometimes get a good question in, and it seems like an obvious thing
 to me when I do. I kick myself for not having seen that question
 sooner than I did. I deplore the current CoS, and I'm not so sure that
 one large organization was a good idea to begin with, but really, it's
 the usual band of idiots who could screw up boiling an egg for
 breakfast. It's going to be that way for some time, the way I see it.
 But this time around, and next time around, I'm going to try to do
 something about it. You know, I''m sure, that making big changes in a
 society is done on a person-by-person basis. Sure we get leaders, but
 the ideas and visions of those leaders are what makes one guy move,
 then another, and another. It's the idea and the clarity of vision.
 One man can defeat an army of a billion men - if the one man is
 fighting on the right side, others will see that. (Too bad that moron
 Rommel missed that one, until the very end. Intimidation is a result
 of lack of certainty. And if one truly sees another, however
 terrifying, the right question will destroy the most evil - sometimes
 all it takes is a chuckle. Don't fight on their side of the court, but
 stay on your own side, and move on your own time. Churchill proved
 that words and will and certainty are more powerful than Tiger tanks -
 so did some guys in Beijing, standing in front of tanks. This is why
 tyrants want to squish free speech, first.)
 So that's what I wanted to float in front of you, my thoughts and
 experience. Scientology the study is good. It won't do everything - an
 individual has to take it, seize it, and put in some careful thought.
 The CoS is currently a bust. I haven't had anything to do with any of
 those guys for many years.
 This struggle for Knowledge and for a chance for many individuals to
 make better lives for themselves on their own accord, is what
 Scientology the study is about. The individual is first, Scn is
 something he can take and use to great benefit for himself and for
 those around him.
 I'll leave you with a question I'm working on. What is a being's
 principal activity? In other words, what is a being's principal
 product, that can be useful to others? Some on a web forum have said
 one after another, that "Being" is a being's principal activity.
 Sounds logical to me, makes sense, and I can see it and feel it. If
 that's a starting point, then it seems to me that "having a viewpoint"
 is a very similar statement. But that principal product isn't entirely
 satisfying, since obviously there are many sub-products, or products
 that stem from that: knowledge, for example. And one can have
 knowledge about many things. I don't know if Hubbard ever asked that
 or phrased that in those particular words, but if you follow that line
 of questioning, you end up with "The Factors" of Scientology (puts it
 all in a nutshell of three or four pages). And you end up with a lot
 of other Scn stuff as well, like Affinity, Reality, and Communication.
 You end up tracing all he way down to the basics of how to audit. From
 there, moving back from specific "how to's" in a very practical sense,
 moving back towards the philosophy of Scn, all the way back up, you
 end up with Being, again. Scn is just about facilitating better being,
 or being better, for one's own pleasure and benefit, as well as for
 It simply could not be more normal and natural. But look at the furor,
 and the mess, this has created, and continues to create. It isn't that
 it is wrong - far from it. It is that too few get it.
 Taking my cue from you, a bright guy: All of the above is a reflection
 of my personal viewpoint and opinion and experience, and should not be
 taken as "the truth" by anyone.

Tue Dec  7 23:27:47 EST 2010